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New member with several questions
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12145		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  notime2paddle [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  New member with several questions
Thanks in advance to all of the postings I have been reading - this site is a great info source. Now it is my turn to ask the questions I still have.
I am a 50 year old whitewater kayaker who took up kayak fishing a few years ago - currently I am fishing with a WS Tarpon 120, and my wife has
a Tarpon 100. We use both boats on local reservior, and in the bay at the Jersey shore. When floating local streams, I use my whitewater boat, and she the 100.
Well, the years have taken their toll, and we both now have shoulder issues - mine is a reattached bicep tendon, and cartilege seperation repair
resulting from a whitewater incident after missing my roll. I can still do rivers OK, but paddling distances on flat water doesn't work as well anymore. Which is why we are looking at Hobies and Mirage drive.
For the first boat, I am looking at getting one of the tandems, since we can't afford to buy two at once. It has to be a compromise boat,so which of the 3 available would work the best? (Oasis, Outfitter, or 14T inflatable)

1-90% of the time I will be using it solo, for fishing on either large reservior,barnegat bay or Jamacia bay, with chop, winds , etc. Covering good distances.
2 - I am a big guy - 6' 5" 225 lbs with a 36" inseam and size 14 shoe
(You should see me squeezing into my 7' whitewater boat!)
3 - I want to also use it on some easy streams or rivers - Class 2 or less,
either with both of us, or me solo with camping gear. Assuming Mirage drives removed for this
4 - have had problems when kayak fishing in Florida, because of drifitng
into the Mangroves with 4 rods sticking straight up in the air - not a pretty site. If it weren't for the wife, I would be ordering a Pro Angler right now for the rod storage alone. Would any of the Tandems have enough room solo to lay a few rods horizontally, without getting in the way, same as I would in a canoe?
Thats all for now - I am sure more questions later. My closest Hobie Dealer is over 2 hours away, so the forum should be a great help.
Thanks again
Author:  Roadrunner [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi notime and welcome to the forum. Regarding kayak choices, your height limits your options (IMO). Both the Oasis and the Outfitter have a rather standard cockpit length which I think is too short for your 36" inseam. There isn't enough length to get your legs fully extended, as you can see in this pic. He has a 36" in seam also:
Image
You really need to have full extension (or very close) to get full power out of the drive without unnessary fatigue.

I know the i12 has more legroom and I think the i14 does also (the inflatables have an adjustable seat position to give you more length options). But it's not as fast though as the Oasis. On the other hand, if you're having shoulder problems, it would be the easiest to load and unload. It has a huge load capacity, but is not the easiest for paddling rivers because of its 36" width. None of Hobies has dedicated horizontal rod storage like the Pro Angler.

Even though you're looking at tandems, lets consider a couple of alternatives:

The Adventure has a longer cockpit (by one inch) is the fastest, and is the least affected by wind and chop. You can probably slip your rods in through the front hatch, although access underway is limited. You still may have some height issues with this boat although with an inflatable life vest and no shoes you can gain more effective leg length. (I'm not listing the Revolution here because it has the same cockpit length as the Oasis and Outfitter).

The Pro Angler can easily accommodate your height, has gobs of space and a huge capacity. It's geared toward your predominant activity -- fishing solo. Although it's the heaviest, it's also quite easy to handle. Like the i14 though, it's not a very good paddler.

I'm not advocating abandoning your wife and getting a solo machine, or spending more than you're comfortable with. And yet, you don't want to get something that only does half the job.

If height weren't an issue, I'd recommend the Oasis for the range and river paddling. Considering height, the inflatable may be the only tandem you can comfortably fit in. Prioritizing fishing and your height, the PA would be closest to ideal and your wife could certainly come along and fish too -- from her lawn chair in the cargo well! :wink:

As you can see, there's no 100% solution here. Perhaps it's worth a phone call to the dealer to see if he has the demo boats for you to try and will accommodate 2 or 3 different demos. After that you should know what will work best for you. 8)
Author:  Apalach [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:31 am ]
Post subject: 
Hey Not,
Some good advice from Roadrunner, but I have to caution you—he doesn’t fish! So when looking at a Mirage drive yak for fishing and all-around use, I would suggest one of my favs—the Outfitter, basically an Outback on ‘roids. Here is a pic from one of my earlier posts about this boat, as well as a longer article reviewing it just after it came out in 2005.

Image

http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewt ... =outfitter

Here are the layouts of the cockpits of both the Oasis and the Outfitter.

Image

Image

Two big differences right off. The Oasis is nearly two feet longer and has a larger weight capacity, so it has more room for gear, both on deck and in the hold and will be a bit faster on the water. BUT (big “butâ€
Author:  snow_rules [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
I just purchased the outfitter but I did like some of the feaures of the oasis, mainly the molded foot rest if you plan on doing any paddling on a river. I haven't had the outfitter out solo yet but be aware of the weight restrictions for going out solo. There are posts to help place weight at the front of the boat and I will be purchasing some water bags for this purpose. I am in Missouri so I don't have any access to any ocean or bays and will be using mine on lakes and rivers (up to class II)
Author:  notime2paddle [ Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Thank you all for the great information - RoadRunner, after reading all of your detailed posts and reviews, I was hoping for a response from you.
Thanks for the heads up on leg room differences between boats. 10 years ago, I wouldn't have cared, but now comfort is becoming more and more
important. I also agree with Apalach, that setup for fishing is important,
as I am learning the more I do. That is why I am reconsidering getting the
Pro Angler - it looks the most comfortable, and like a minature version of bass boat. I had steered away from it because it looks like a barge,
and in the past, paddling performance has always been my main criteria.
But RoadRunners review, as well as others I have come across, make it sound like a very maneuverable, decent boat - as long as I don't plan on paddling too much. The other choice would be an Adventure, and if we end up with two boats eventually, that would probably be the second boat.
The bulk of my fishing will be in three places - 1st is a 1000 acre reservior near my home, which has high winds and chop usually in the afternoon, of course blowing the wrong way when approaching the launch.
The other is a large open bay, off of Long Beach Island, same conditions with tide thrown in, usually running the wrong way also. Finally, once a year, all the brother in laws get together for fishing - usually in Florida,
but plan on Outer Banks as well. Most of the guys I fish with have Tarpon
160's - so how far behind will I be - or is the mirage system so much better in these conditions, that I will be able to keep up, even in a Pro Angler? Also, how will it handle the rough conditions - I am picturing a family pontoon boat in a storm, and it isn't a pretty picture. I have been caught on the reservior in a small rental jon boat - lousy once the chop hits. Have you gotten GPS speed readings on the Pro Angler, to compare with the other mirage drives?
Anyways, plenty more to come. With two kids in college, the purchase
won't be immediate, but I am trying to decide what to try out when I rent - the local dealers don't do demos - just rentals credited towards purchase,
so it will be one boat at a time.
Does any one know if the Jersey Paddler On Water Demo this year will
have a Pro Angler? I know they will at the Jamacia Bay Tournement,
but I won't be able to make it this year.
Thanks again
Author:  Roadrunner [ Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
notime2paddle wrote:
Most of the guys I fish with have Tarpon
160's - so how far behind will I be - or is the mirage system so much better in these conditions, that I will be able to keep up, even in a Pro Angler?

That's a tough question. The 160 is a pretty fast boat -- 2 1/2 feet longer than the PA and narrower. Unquestionably the hull is faster. But even in the same boat, different paddlers will cruise at different speeds. Comparing paddling to pedaling one has to be careful. Some great paddlers have no legs. On the other hand, pedalers can usually go further without stopping -- the legs have big muscles and hands are available for drinks, swatting flies, etc. without interrupting the pace.

The only legitimate comparison I can make is racing, where all the folks who want to go fast come together to see who is fastest. In last year's San Diego Bay 2 Bay 5 mile race, the (only) Hobie Adventure with Turbofins won its (15' to 19' single SOT) division by over 8 minutes and posted faster times than almost all the other single and tandem SIKs, SOTs and outriggers except surf skis. Headwind and chop were nasty -- 14 rescues.
Image
Image
It seems the worse the weather, the bigger the advantage for the Mirage Drive.

Of course, the PA is not an Adventure, but they do share the same Drive system -- with demonstrated advantages in bad weather. The PA is slower, pounds more and has a higher wind profile; but not that much different than the Hobie tandems.
Quote:
Have you gotten GPS speed readings on the Pro Angler, to compare with the other mirage drives?

Yes. For me the PA did about 4.55 miles in one hour (Turbofins, GPS, no wind, current, tide or chop). That is about .01 MPH slower than comparable times in the Outfitter (solo, ballasted); .3 MPH slower than the Oasis (solo, ballasted); and about .8 MPH slower than the Adventure. Still a respectable one hour non stop performance. Shorter distances of course are faster. Speeds vary according to the person, but the comparisons are reasonably valid.
Quote:
Also, how will it handle the rough conditions -

I don't know from experience -- but based on the ease with which it handles the more moderate conditions, I didn't see anything that would appear to develop into a concern in most conditions.

It's worth repeating again that a proper leg position is important to performance and range with the Mirage Drive. If your legs can't get a near full extension you'll lose power and fatigue faster. Finally, unlike paddles, Mirage Drives are tunable. If your Drive is not properly tuned, it will cost you power. So reaching your full potential is not quite as simple as getting in and just mashing the pedals. It pays to be set up correctly! 8)
Author:  weinerdog [ Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Roadrunner- Do you have any links or info on how to best tune the pedals?
Author:  Roadrunner [ Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
The kayak FAQ section has lots of info. This will get you started:
http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=9608

Here's one on tuning the Turbofins:
http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewt ... tment+clew

This next topic is a broader general tune-up, but including a way to assess your Drive's performance:
http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewt ... erfoemance

And here's one of my favorites. It's more of an expedient emergency guide if something breaks on a Drive. Before actually trying these procedures out, I couldn't imagine the Drive would still perform under these conditions!
http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewt ... tment+clew
What's so impressive about this is almost anything can break or fail and the Drive stays operational enough to get you home without having to paddle (not that there is anything wrong with paddling)!! :)

I have to confess that after over 8 years, I still get a thrill out of Mr. Ketterman's marvelous Mirage Drive -- greatest invention since sliced bread! :wink:
Author:  Ranykster [ Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Racing
Roadrunner wrote:
In last year's San Diego Bay 2 Bay 5 mile race, the (only) Hobie Adventure with Turbofins won its (15' to 19' single SOT) division by over 8 minutes and posted faster times than almost all the other single and tandem SIKs, SOTs and outriggers except surf skis. Headwind and chop were nasty -- 14 rescues. It seems the worse the weather, the bigger the advantage for the Mirage Drive...
It's great to hear that the Mirage kayakers are starting to become interested in the fitness potential of pedal kayaking.
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