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Performance Mirage
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=17749		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Rnykster [ Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Performance Mirage
Matt, is Hobie doing any Mirage testing using more racing oriented shaped hulls? Meaning narrower and longer? Can we ever expect to see a 24" wide 18' long speedster?
Author:  yakkingaway [ Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Performance Mirage
Wow, with the slow acceptance or, at times, no acceptance from the "plastic kayak" community with the current fleet, what would the 18 footer crowd think of a Hobie "waxing their butts?" :lol: Oh what have you started?
Author:  Rnykster [ Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Performance Mirage
yakkingaway wrote:
...what would the 18 footer crowd think of a Hobie "waxing their butts?" :lol: Oh what have you started?
Hahaha. You have a great way of using words. A few days ago I went on half day trip in the Adventure and when looking at the GPS after 3 hours, it said 5 mph average speed. That's in a 27.5" wide kayak. I think it would say 6 mph in a 24" wide kayak and that would leave the rest of the kayaking world wishing they had a Hobie.
Author:  yakkingaway [ Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Performance Mirage
We're somewhat lucky here and the topic will get a grin but it's not been that way on the regular kayak fishing sites. Believe me. If you haven't noticed that is. Even the Outback will over time, outdistance a kayak of similar size. It's the muscle group being used and the fact that speed in the similar length kayak is theoretically the same. It's easier to maintain a good cruising speed using the leg muscle group than it is with shoulder/back/arms. I notice most of my pals with regular paddle kayaks will work their butts off to stay ahead of me when we're having to traverse a distance to reach one of the bridges or fishing holes. Over time, they give it up and quit working so hard. They realize it's almost a no-win situation. 66 year old man kicking it up, staying right with the 30 year old's....... shakes em up. ha. No racing mind you.... none at all. Just ego's speaking up. No doubt about it, the Adventure is a rocket.
Author:  rockcrawler [ Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Performance Mirage
I think another advantage to the Mirage drive that I don't hear mentioned much when comparing paddling to pedaling is the efficiency of the stroke in the water.
The learning curve for efficient paddling can be quite steep compared to the Mirage drive.
Very experienced paddlers might be able to use their energy as efficiently as a pedaler but it takes much more practice to not waste energy in your paddle strokes.
The Mirage drive however is efficient even with people who are using it for the first time.
Author:  mmiller [ Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Performance Mirage
No current plans for a single longer than the Adventure, but the Tandem AI hull should be a screamer!
Author:  Yakaholic [ Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Performance Mirage
mmiller wrote:
No current plans for a single longer than the Adventure, but the Tandem AI hull should be a screamer!


Looking forward to the Tandem AI being a fast kayak not just a sailing trimaran.
Hopefully the dagger board will either be removable like the AI or, if built in, have some type of cover or flap to keep it streamlined. Some of the early prototype pics suggested a built in dagger. You sure don't want a dagger or the drag in kayaking mode.

I'm ready & eager to be an early adopter :P
Author:  Roadrunner [ Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Performance Mirage
Rnykster wrote:
I think it would say 6 mph in a 24" wide kayak and that would leave the rest of the kayaking world wishing they had a Hobie.
Rnykster, you've been awfully quiet about your new Mirage Drive so far. Could it actually be Rnykster-proof? :lol: Glad you're back!

I also think there is a market for a fast hull version of the Mirage. Hobie has a glass shop for its cats and an excellent design team. This would be a natural for a small volume performance kayak that could take on the surf skis and K-1s. For virtually everything else, IMO there isn't much that can keep up with an Adventure.

yakkingaway wrote:
Wow, with the slow acceptance or, at times, no acceptance from the "plastic kayak" community with the current fleet, what would the 18 footer crowd think of a Hobie "waxing their butts?"

Yakking, way to go with your Outback! I think a good part of the outside paddling world is simply intimidated by the Mirage. If they (other manufacturers) can't compete with it, there is no way they can embrace it and still keep their customers. Native has made a valiant effort with its "Propel" drive, but frankly, it's just not in the same realm.

Yakaholic wrote:
Looking forward to the Tandem AI being a fast kayak not just a sailing trimaran. Hopefully the dagger board will either be removable like the AI or, if built in, have some type of cover or flap to keep it streamlined.
Yak, I also have great hopes for the Tandem Island as a fast pedaling tandem. Regarding the daggerboard, not to worry -- a little packing tape will streamline any slot they come up with! I use this method all the time with the Adventure to keep the water from entering and keep the drag down when pedaling; when it's time to use the daggerboard, the board just pokes through the tape. When done it's easy to re-tape. 8)
Author:  Yakaholic [ Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Performance Mirage
Roadrunner wrote:
Yakaholic wrote:
Looking forward to the Tandem AI being a fast kayak not just a sailing trimaran. Hopefully the dagger board will either be removable like the AI or, if built in, have some type of cover or flap to keep it streamlined.
Yak, I also have great hopes for the Tandem Island as a fast pedaling tandem. Regarding the daggerboard, not to worry -- a little packing tape will streamline any slot they come up with! I use this method all the time with the Adventure to keep the water from entering and keep the drag down when pedaling; when it's time to use the daggerboard, the board just pokes through the tape. When done it's easy to re-tape. 8)


I had actually thought about having to do that when I saw the underside of the prototype dagger board cavity. But really, can't Hobie design a cap that one attaches to plug that huge dagger board slot/hole that holds the built in dagger board? The original carry on or removable dagger setup was perfect for sailing or kayaking.

When you want to paddle only your adventure, removing the drive and putting in the cassette plug makes a world of difference.

Ya, I had pretty much resigned myself to taping up that dagger slot for kayak only use, at least until there is another method.

For my use, the tandem AI has to function well as a great kayak as well as being a fast sailing craft. I'm anxious to see Hobie's new craft.
Author:  Rnykster [ Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Performance Mirage
rockcrawler wrote:
...it takes much more practice to not waste energy in your paddle strokes. The Mirage drive however is efficient even with people who are using it for the first time.
Very true rockcrawler. As long as the pedals are moving, the kayak is efficiently moving. The second the paddle leaves the water in a paddle kayak, there isn't anything in the water helping the kayak move, hence it starts instantly slowing down, that is until the other side of the paddle get put in and used. I've noticed paddle kayakers really struggling in windy conditions but not so with the mirage drive kayak.
Author:  Rnykster [ Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Performance Mirage
mmiller wrote:
No current plans for a single longer than the Adventure, but the Tandem AI hull should be a screamer!
Thanks for the info Matt. Drat... :cry:
Author:  Rnykster [ Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Performance Mirage
Roadrunner wrote:
Rnykster, you've been awfully quiet about your new Mirage Drive so far. Could it actually be Rnykster-proof? :lol: Glad you're back!
Thanks. I'm retired now :D leaving plenty of time to go on kayaking adventures. Only had the Adventure for two months and after logging 450 miles so far, the mirage drive unit has never slipped a gear, snapped a cable, or suffered from any problem. The last drive unit I had was completely wore out after 750 miles. If this drive lasts a year, I'll be happy. So far, so good, but, it's only two months old... Quiet is good.

Speaking of quiet, I am so amazed how silent the new drive unit is at about 3 mph. Even nearby kayakers have commented on the silence from this kayak. However, the noise generated from adjacent kayakers dipping their paddles into the water and swooshing the paddle behind them for propulsion, and then swinging their blade out of the water leaving a sheet of water falling back into the water, is deafening. :lol: Paddle stroke noise ruins the whole ambience of becoming one with the surrounding environment. Go Team Hobie! (Even if there will never be a slim jim version :cry: ).
Author:  rockcrawler [ Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Performance Mirage
I agree. Pedaling is SO quiet that I am now looking for some new kayk shorts. I have always used the nylon (?) quick dry shorts for kayaking but with the Hobie and pedaling the only thing I can hear is my shorts from my legs moving back and forth.
I need quieter shorts!
Right now, since it is getting cold, I am wearing fleece pants and they are quiet but when it starts getting warm again I am going to have to find something quiet. I know lycra cycle type shorts would work but I really don't want to have to wear those tight things.

Are there any kind of baggy, quick-dry shorts that don't make noise? If so, I have not found them.

It never occured to me that certain shorts are too loud for pedalling with the Mirage drive!
Author:  sammy925 [ Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Performance Mirage
Rockcrawler, where i go most of the time in the summer no ones is around, so its usually a naked day with a loin cloth for the sun, makes overboard discharge real simple too :wink: . And if I pull in to the shore,,, well,,, since its desolate on the Gulf Island National Seashore there are lots of hot topless and some bottomless honeys that love checking me and my yak out. And of course my Hobie livewell doubles for a very nice ice filled beer cooler for those deliberate naked beach landings, where its always the "hey whats this thing in back",,,when they open it, its always,, "OMG, look at this thing", party time...Just wait till I mount my GoPro Wide camera.... Hobies!!!! MUCH more than a fishing machine!!!!CHICKS DIG IT :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Author:  thebaker [ Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Performance Mirage
Rnykster,
I have been asking that same question about once a year for several years. Everytime, I cross my fingers and hope Hobie is working on an all out touring kayak designed with a very fast hull (longer and skinnier). I would certainly think there would be a big market for a model like this. Matt, please pass along this hunch! I'm in if you offer one! Chime in everybody, let's make some customer noise to get Hobie thinking seriously about this!
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