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TURBO FINS PROBLEMS
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=23836		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  jnoel [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  TURBO FINS PROBLEMS
i TOOK A FRIENDS OUTBACK OUT TODAY FOR THE FIRST TIME. the problem arose about 7 miles from the nearest road and well I was smart to have a paddle; I was enjoying the day just me and my son on a lonely bayou in the middle of nowhere. the pedaling seemed a little weird so I took it out and realized that one of the fins fell off. Does this happen often? the screw and gold bolt was still attached. well i was trying to make the best out of the deal so i called the Owner (My friend) and told him about it; he just laughed and said that those were his new st turbo fins, and that I was the first one to use them since they were put on by the dealership just about two weeks ago. the owner said to try and petal with just one fin well that was good for about one mile then the petals felt light so i took them out and they were falling off in the process. I was able to catch them though. this one the little pin with the split ring was missing. does this normally happen? Today was a great day on the water but if this is oin to happen ever time i take this yak out I'll spend my money on something else.
Thanks and please write back. Jnoel
Author:  mmiller [ Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TURBO FINS PROBLEMS
Sounds like your buddy has the older fin / mast attachments... Older masts (stainless rods that the fins mount on) are held into the sprockets by a set screw. When a mast is removed and re-installed the alignment is critical to get the set screw in the right spot and in tightly... without stripping the threads. We also recommend loctite applied to the threads of the set crew to keep the screw from backing out. This system and failure to properly seat the masts is the reason for the fins falling off.

Newer "V2" masts are threaded into brass inserts in the sprockets (loctite is also used here) are easier to mount correctly and are very secure, so do not have the "fins falling off" issue.
Author:  FishIt [ Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TURBO FINS PROBLEMS
Surely, there has to be a way to mount the fins so that they don't fall off? This sounds like a serious product liability issue!!!!! :!: :!: :!: I'm an older guy... what happens if I get stranded out in the middle of nowhere? Should I not venture away from the beach? :?: :?:
Author:  mnormand [ Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TURBO FINS PROBLEMS
Hey JNoel... I think we met at the meeting here last week? Sacalait Larto discussion?

Man I hope I don't have to paddle 7 miles... I'm so spoiled pedaling ! :lol:

Mark
Author:  mmiller [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TURBO FINS PROBLEMS
(censored) wrote:
Surely, there has to be a way to mount the fins so that they don't fall off?


Yes, there is. Mount with care on the old sprocket system and you won't have issues. These failures are user errors and failure to maintain the drive 90% of the time.

or...

Upgrade to the V2 sprockets and threaded masts (standard since summer 2008 production).

and...

Carry your paddle as backup.
Author:  stringy [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TURBO FINS PROBLEMS
jnoel and FI,
In almost 4 years of Hobie kayaking I have never had a fin fall off. For a fin to fall off the clevis pin has to come out or the outhaul block has become damaged (almost impossible)! :wink:
I couldn't work out from jnoels post whether the fin fell completely off or was still attached and dangling.
For it to fall completely off the clevis pin and lockring were not correctly installed during the upgrade.
For it to dangle the mast has broken or loosened as in Matt's reply.
I have had masts break but the fin remains attached by the clevis pin.
The Miragedrive is a mechanical device and like a bicycle needs maintenance. Parts wear out or can be damaged.
The positives of the MD far outweigh the odd, rare mechanical failure, but as Matt says, always carry your paddle.
I would never go back to a paddle only kayak! :)
Author:  Maui Mark [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TURBO FINS PROBLEMS
I fish the open ocean a lot and I usually go on all day excursions. Therefore I always carry and extra complete mirage drive as a safety back up as well as a paddle just in case the need arises.

In fact the Pro Angler is so roomy I'm thinking about hiring the two deck hands reflected below to give me a hand:)

Image
Author:  FishIt [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TURBO FINS PROBLEMS
:D OK! I'll take stranded in the middle of nowhere if I can borrow your deck.... er, ah....hands........................... :lol:
Author:  Roadrunner [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TURBO FINS PROBLEMS
jnoel wrote:
i TOOK A FRIENDS OUTBACK OUT TODAY FOR THE FIRST TIME. those were his new st turbo fins, and that I was the first one to use them since they were put on by the dealership just about two weeks ago.

this one the little pin with the split ring was missing. does this normally happen? Today was a great day on the water but if this is oin to happen ever time i take this yak out I'll spend my money on something else. Jnoel
This sounds like an installation problem reather than the design itself. It's kind of like having your wheel changed but the installer forgets to tighten the lug nuts -- by and by it will fall off.

If a pin and split ring was missing, the ring was not installed correctly (or not installed) and the pin slipped out. This would allow the fin to slide off the mast.

If the brass threaded screw on the fin was disconnected, it has unthreaded (or was not threaded in the first place) and the fin can slide off the mast. This is rare but possible.

If a mast (rod) fell out this quickly, it was not properly seated. Here's a cutaway of what it looks like when the mast (older style) is seated properly...
Image

and not...
Image
Or, as Matt says, if the Allenhead locking screw was not secured with Loctite and backed out enough to throw the mast.

These masts and sprockets were redesigned a couple of years ago to minimize the chance of someone accidentally botching the installation on newer equipment (beginning with the '09s)

Since the fins were recently installed by the dealer, I would speculate that the dealer did not install the fins correctly. The product is only as good as the service work. IMO, it pays to know your gear and learn how to inspect it, especially if someone else is working on it.

Fortunately for us, fins fall off Drives about as often as wheels fall off cars. A good mechanic is worth his weight in gold! 8)
Author:  larryhts [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TURBO FINS PROBLEMS
All:

I think RR is right on. I've had 3 sets of drives for over 3 years and have not had any trouble at all, I check them over about once a month but so far have not had to do anything. 2 V1 and 1 V2.
Author:  FishIt [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TURBO FINS PROBLEMS
mmiller wrote:

Quote:
Upgrade to the V2 sprockets and threaded masts (standard since summer 2008 production).

and...

Carry your paddle as backup.

_________________


The first is good to know... I have a 2009.

And, as for the second... I ain't a total idjit! :o
Author:  jnoel [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TURBO FINS PROBLEMS
ok sorry I've been busy lately. I am the one that had all the problems. First the drive system was the V2. the next thing is that when the first fin came off, I; being new to the boat didn't realize it so I'll give ya 'll that it can still be pedaled with one fin. That being said that the first fin that fell off, the little spit ring, stainless steel screw(bolt) and the brass nut was still all attached!!!!! when the next fin fell off i realized it right away, when i picked it up i was able to catch it, on that fin the split ring and the small stainless steel pin that the ring fits into along with everything else was gone. And Mark yes I was at the lafayettekayakfishing meeting at pack and Paddle and yes I am the saclait troller and I have yet to go. I have better reports for other areas but that will not be posted on this website, You need to check our site out . Thanks again
Author:  mmiller [ Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TURBO FINS PROBLEMS
Aft fin maybe? We do note that improper drive installation can tip the drive forward... when pedaled the aft fin contacts the well and pulls the attachment hardware off the fin. That would allow the fin to drop of.

This seems the only likely explanation for the statement:

(censored) wrote:
First the drive system was the V2. <<clip>> That being said that the first fin that fell off, the little spit ring, stainless steel screw(bolt) and the brass nut was still all attached!!!!!


Drive fit FAQ: http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=12836
Author:  HsvToolFool [ Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TURBO FINS PROBLEMS
Would it be feasible to offer an optional fin specifically for fishing shallow, murky water? Perhaps a less flexible rubber or plastic could be used which trades off reasonable amounts of speed for increased durability. I would keep backups of both fin-types on hand. In Summer, I would swap to the softer/faster fins to troll crankbaits over deeper water. In Spring and Fall, I can use the tougher/slower fins to navigate around unseen obstacles.

I've now been a PA owner for about one month. I fish for crappie in Southeastern lakes, I'm delighted to report that the PA is an absolutely ideal platform for crappie fishing. Within 30 minutes of my first outing, silently slipping around docks and brush while casting was second nature. Fishing jigs around bridge pilings is like driving a slalom course. Fun! I cannot emphasize enough how thrilled I am with my PA.

Having read these forums before buying, I knew to be careful as possible to avoid bending the masts. This issue no longer concerns me. The masts are so sturdy I can't imagine bending one without a bone-jarring collision. Such accidents happen, but I think it's very unlikely.

However...

I am a bit discouraged that the fin-material is much more fragile than expected. I also lost my rear fin on my first outing due to the same user error. The splash-guard prevented the drive from seating fully. As a newbie, I failed to recognize the issue and my first pedal attempt rotated the drive, tore the fin, and it vanished.

Of course, Hobie's support was stellar and I had a new fin within a week. Even though I will never make that mistake again, I will always keep two backup fins on hand in the future. I was very upset that no local Hobie dealers had replacement fins in stock. In fact, I still want to give all those dealers brutal wedgies. If Hobie hadn't saved me directly, I probably would have missed weeks of beautiful fishing weather this Spring.

Anyway, crappie and largemouth bass angling in Southeastern lakes means navigating around stumps and limbs in murky water. That's where the fish are. It's too soon to tell, but I fear that replacing fins may be a regular chore for me.

Granted, spending $40 per year for a new pair of fins is more a nuisance than a financial burden. It certainly does not affect my high opinion of the PA. Furthemore, my fears may be unfounded. Perhaps I'll fish several years before tearing a fin on an unseen obstacle. I just wanted to propose an optional fin directed at fishermen not navigating the clear, deep water of Baja.
Author:  mmiller [ Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TURBO FINS PROBLEMS
Certainly makes sense.
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