Hobie Forums :: View topic - Why I will not be buying a Hobie Revo 11

Grampa Spey:
Everyone has their thing that draws them to this sport of Kayaking, some like to fish, some like to travel, some really enjoy sailing, etc. When we first moved down to Florida I was introduced to the water (gulf and intercoastal) and really enjoy going out every weekend all year round. Kayaking and sailing is my exercise program and have lost almost 50 lbs. A good day for me is covering 30-40 miles, thats my thing. Before buying any kayaks we rented several and just paddled about on regular paddle kayaks a few times. If I had to guess we covered maybe 3-4 miles and were pretty tired afterward, it's alot of work paddling in my opinion and I feel I would have lost interest in the sport very quickly if I hadn't discovered Hobie and their Mirage drive system. We spend most of our time on the gulf coast around Tampa Bay and Key West, both of which are very large with thousands of really fun places to explore, we also love to snorkel and scuba dive and combine our activities whenever possible. I can easily pedal nowdays for 10-12 hours straight with no ill effects, and get up and do it again the very next day ( I usually do so on weekends), But thats our thing, you can safely guess that I'm very fond of Hobie and their great engineering and products and am clearly biased to their products.
I looked at the Freedom Hawk 12 at one time, but they told me it's not recommended in the ocean, (we don't do fresh water --"gators"). The new FH Predator which is a 14 ft boat looks like it would do ok in the ocean though, and looks like a nice boat. However without a mirage drive I simply wouldn't be interested, we just have to cover too much distance here to get anywhere and I don't paddle ( I hate paddling to be honest, just too tiring for me). Now you know where I'm coming from I'm hoping you can come up with an equatable solution with Hobie (they really are the best out there).

Here is my suggestion. I checked on Craigs list and found no Mirage drives for sale locally, but saw several listings by people wanting to buy them. My suggestion would be to possibly sell one of the Mirage drives from your Oasis on Craigs list or on this forum. If in good condition it is likely worth $400 plus (more if it's a V2 or turbo). Once it's sold go buy the new Revo 11 and keep the new drive (works on either boat). I have seen several really old used units for sale at the local dealer and they are never under $300 (even the really old pre V1 ones). Now if you take the $1750 minus $400, your getting a new Hobie for $1350 that you can keep and use for two years and sell for more than $1350, then turn around and buy 3 or 4 used FH Predators at $300-400 each (typical price for most any brand of two yr old kayaks (except Hobie)). But also keep in mind when trying to sell either the Oasis or the Revo 11 later on if you don't have the drives they will be difficult to sell, with the drives you will get almost what you paid for the boats if you take care of them, but without the drives they loose 2/3 value just like everything else out there, (good luck trying to find a used mirage drive when the time comes), they are very rare, just like used Hobies at a bargain price (there's a good reason for that).
This is just my take on things, and hope you can work out something with Hobie, but keep in mind that you may want to sell your Hobies eventually, and you don't want to shoot your own foot now making an apparent great deal on the surface (buying the boat without the Mirage drive), and not realizing your killing the eventual re-sale value of the boat. There is no equal to this situation in the marketplace today, where else can you buy something, use it a couple years then sell it for almost what you bought it for (try that with your car), Thank you Hobie for this.
Bob

Author:	Grampa Spey [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:48 am ]
Post subject:	Why I will not be buying a Hobie Revo 11
I love the Hobie Mirage yaks, but I have a real problem with Hobie’s marketing of their Mirages yaks re not selling a hull only package to current Mirage customers like me. We have the Mirage units, paddles, seats, cassettes. We own a Hobie Mirage Oasis and don‘t need replicated and expensive gear to store and to pay for gear we really don‘t need. We own the Oasis and have two of everything, and I don’t need three of everything to get a new Revo 11. I wanted to buy a Hull Only Revo 11 and most dealers in my area never got back to me when I contacted them re a hull only price. If they did, there was a minimal discount with them keeping the Mirage, paddle, cassette and other items, and their minimal discount would only be applied to buying more Hobie gear which I really don’t need. Hobie sells its paddle hull only yaks and obviously makes enough profit to keep making and selling them. Yet, they close their ears to good customers like me wanting a hull only Mirage yak. So, I will be buying Freedom Hawk’s new Pathfinder. Its new hull and package enables me to add one of my two electric motors with only the expense of the motor mount, not a two thousand $ extra electric motor which will only work with a Hobie. They will not charge me again for my great seat which I paid extra a year ago on my FH 12. They will not charge me for my standup paddle , my adjustable AT paddle, the anchoring package, fly rod holders and other gear I bought with my FH 12. That gear will go from my FH 12 to the FH Pathfinder and vice versa, depending on the water and needs for that day. http://www.bing.com/search?q=Freedom+Ha ... -SearchBox If a Hobie Dealer within an hour of Napa can come up with a clean Hull Only Revo at a good price, I would be interested. adjustable AT paddle was a gift from my family

Author:	Tom Kirkman [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why I will not be buying a Hobie Revo 11
I understand your pain and won't argue with your points. There is, however, one other option for you to consider. If it's not in line at all with what you want to do I apologize beforehand. Have you considered buying the whole package and then putting the new Mirage Drive up for sale? I know a few guys around here that have lost drives or needed to replace them. Seems there is some market for Mirage Drive units even if they're just a few dollars under retail. Just an idea.

Author:	augaug [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why I will not be buying a Hobie Revo 11
I see your point Grampa Spey. Hold off on buying the other boat until Matt Miller see's this post. I'd be curious to know if Hobie would sell the Hull only. If the alternative is to make no money off of you, it makes sense to come to a deal. You raise a valid point about them selling regular paddle kayaks. I'm betting that Hobie will come through for you, if not, I'd be curious to see their response.

Author:	KayakingBob [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why I will not be buying a Hobie Revo 11
If you can successfully sell all the parts you don't want, you would get the hull and the parts you do want much cheaper, as well as giving a deal to whoever bought your unwanted items. It's a pain to have to list, negotiate and collect your $'s for the unwanted items, but can save you much money. Just like a car, if you totaled up the replacement costs for all the parts that make up a Hobie, it's many times what we pay to buy one. Just a thought...

Author:	fusioneng [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why I will not be buying a Hobie Revo 11
Grampa Spey: Everyone has their thing that draws them to this sport of Kayaking, some like to fish, some like to travel, some really enjoy sailing, etc. When we first moved down to Florida I was introduced to the water (gulf and intercoastal) and really enjoy going out every weekend all year round. Kayaking and sailing is my exercise program and have lost almost 50 lbs. A good day for me is covering 30-40 miles, thats my thing. Before buying any kayaks we rented several and just paddled about on regular paddle kayaks a few times. If I had to guess we covered maybe 3-4 miles and were pretty tired afterward, it's alot of work paddling in my opinion and I feel I would have lost interest in the sport very quickly if I hadn't discovered Hobie and their Mirage drive system. We spend most of our time on the gulf coast around Tampa Bay and Key West, both of which are very large with thousands of really fun places to explore, we also love to snorkel and scuba dive and combine our activities whenever possible. I can easily pedal nowdays for 10-12 hours straight with no ill effects, and get up and do it again the very next day ( I usually do so on weekends), But thats our thing, you can safely guess that I'm very fond of Hobie and their great engineering and products and am clearly biased to their products. I looked at the Freedom Hawk 12 at one time, but they told me it's not recommended in the ocean, (we don't do fresh water --"gators"). The new FH Predator which is a 14 ft boat looks like it would do ok in the ocean though, and looks like a nice boat. However without a mirage drive I simply wouldn't be interested, we just have to cover too much distance here to get anywhere and I don't paddle ( I hate paddling to be honest, just too tiring for me). Now you know where I'm coming from I'm hoping you can come up with an equatable solution with Hobie (they really are the best out there). Here is my suggestion. I checked on Craigs list and found no Mirage drives for sale locally, but saw several listings by people wanting to buy them. My suggestion would be to possibly sell one of the Mirage drives from your Oasis on Craigs list or on this forum. If in good condition it is likely worth $400 plus (more if it's a V2 or turbo). Once it's sold go buy the new Revo 11 and keep the new drive (works on either boat). I have seen several really old used units for sale at the local dealer and they are never under $300 (even the really old pre V1 ones). Now if you take the $1750 minus $400, your getting a new Hobie for $1350 that you can keep and use for two years and sell for more than $1350, then turn around and buy 3 or 4 used FH Predators at $300-400 each (typical price for most any brand of two yr old kayaks (except Hobie)). But also keep in mind when trying to sell either the Oasis or the Revo 11 later on if you don't have the drives they will be difficult to sell, with the drives you will get almost what you paid for the boats if you take care of them, but without the drives they loose 2/3 value just like everything else out there, (good luck trying to find a used mirage drive when the time comes), they are very rare, just like used Hobies at a bargain price (there's a good reason for that). This is just my take on things, and hope you can work out something with Hobie, but keep in mind that you may want to sell your Hobies eventually, and you don't want to shoot your own foot now making an apparent great deal on the surface (buying the boat without the Mirage drive), and not realizing your killing the eventual re-sale value of the boat. There is no equal to this situation in the marketplace today, where else can you buy something, use it a couple years then sell it for almost what you bought it for (try that with your car), Thank you Hobie for this. Bob

Hobie Forums http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/

Why I will not be buying a Hobie Revo 11 http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=39658	Page 1 of 3

Author:	scfa [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why I will not be buying a Hobie Revo 11
Grandpa Sprey brings up a very good point. I am in a similar situation times 2, I own 2 2011 Oasis so I have 4 of everything. I'd love to be able to buy a revo blank hull for solo runs or surf launching but my dealer said Hobie doesn't sell them. Attention Hobie there is a market for blanks please help your loyal customer base!

Author:	Grampa Spey [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: fusioneng
Good suggestions, except I will be 73 this week, and I really don't want to deal with Craig's list and maybe end up as a crime stat victim or the hassel. Hobies do an excellent job of holding their value, but the Freedom Hawks do okay. Below is a link to used yaks with a S California dealer. The FH advertised is the FH12, and I paid $800 for that model a year ago. A year later, the FH12 is priced a little less than I paid for it. http://www.southwindkayaks.com/usedkayaksale.html I have bad rotator cuffs and a torn right bicep head to go with the rotator cuffs. That is why I came to Hobie. With the Pathfinder, I can order the motor mount as the only extra besides the stakeout pole. Then, I can use either my saltwater MinnKota or freshwater Minnkota with the battery I own for my Jon Boat. Bob, thanks for your time and suggestions. I appreciate it. Like you, I'm a fan of Hobie Mirage Yaks until it come to ordering a new one and paying for and dealing with gear that I own and don't need extras. like paddles, cassettes. Sounds like your Hobies have been great for exercise and improving your stamina and health. fusioneng wrote: Grampa Spey: Everyone has their thing that draws them to this sport of Kayaking, some like to fish, some like to travel, some really enjoy sailing, etc. When we first moved down to Florida I was introduced to the water (gulf and intercoastal) and really enjoy going out every weekend all year round. Kayaking and sailing is my exercise program and have lost almost 50 lbs. A good day for me is covering 30-40 miles, thats my thing. Before buying any kayaks we rented several and just paddled about on regular paddle kayaks a few times. If I had to guess we covered maybe 3-4 miles and were pretty tired afterward, it's alot of work paddling in my opinion and I feel I would have lost interest in the sport very quickly if I hadn't discovered Hobie and their Mirage drive system. We spend most of our time on the gulf coast around Tampa Bay and Key West, both of which are very large with thousands of really fun places to explore, we also love to snorkel and scuba dive and combine our activities whenever possible. I can easily pedal nowdays for 10-12 hours straight with no ill effects, and get up and do it again the very next day ( I usually do so on weekends), But thats our thing, you can safely guess that I'm very fond of Hobie and their great engineering and products and am clearly biased to their products. I looked at the Freedom Hawk 12 at one time, but they told me it's not recommended in the ocean, (we don't do fresh water --"gators"). The new FH Predator which is a 14 ft boat looks like it would do ok in the ocean though, and looks like a nice boat. However without a mirage drive I simply wouldn't be interested, we just have to cover too much distance here to get anywhere and I don't paddle ( I hate paddling to be honest, just too tiring for me). Now you know where I'm coming from I'm hoping you can come up with an equatable solution with Hobie (they really are the best out there). Here is my suggestion. I checked on Craigs list and found no Mirage drives for sale locally, but saw several listings by people wanting to buy them. My suggestion would be to possibly sell one of the Mirage drives from your Oasis on Craigs list or on this forum. If in good condition it is likely worth $400 plus (more if it's a V2 or turbo). Once it's sold go buy the new Revo 11 and keep the new drive (works on either boat). I have seen several really old used units for sale at the local dealer and they are never under $300 (even the really old pre V1 ones). Now if you take the $1750 minus $400, your getting a new Hobie for $1350 that you can keep and use for two years and sell for more than $1350, then turn around and buy 3 or 4 used FH Predators at $300-400 each (typical price for most any brand of two yr old kayaks (except Hobie)). But also keep in mind when trying to sell either the Oasis or the Revo 11 later on if you don't have the drives they will be difficult to sell, with the drives you will get almost what you paid for the boats if you take care of them, but without the drives they loose 2/3 value just like everything else out there, (good luck trying to find a used mirage drive when the time comes), they are very rare, just like used Hobies at a bargain price (there's a good reason for that). This is just my take on things, and hope you can work out something with Hobie, but keep in mind that you may want to sell your Hobies eventually, and you don't want to shoot your own foot now making an apparent great deal on the surface (buying the boat without the Mirage drive), and not realizing your killing the eventual re-sale value of the boat. There is no equal to this situation in the marketplace today, where else can you buy something, use it a couple years then sell it for almost what you bought it for (try that with your car), Thank you Hobie for this. Bob

Author:	Grampa Spey [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why I will not be buying a Hobie Revo 11
So you have double the gear that we have. The Revo 11 would not be a primary fishing boat for me, but I could use it for solo runs and going out with a couple of friends, who own solo Hobie mirage yaks. My wife had serious surgery in August. She is doing okay, but her Surgeon doesn't want her trying to help get our Oasis rolled over on our trailer, on to the Trax and then going through the getting the Oasis off the Trax in the water and back on and back up to the trailer. So she will not be yakking until probably next spring. I will quote you, "Attention Hobie there is a market for blanks please help your loyal customer base!" scfa wrote: Grandpa Sprey brings up a very good point. I am in a similar situation times 2, I own 2 2011 Oasis so I have 4 of everything. I'd love to be able to buy a revo blank hull for solo runs or surf launching but my dealer said Hobie doesn't sell them. Attention Hobie there is a market for blanks please help your loyal customer base!

Author:	Bcastile [ Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why I will not be buying a Hobie Revo 11
Matt may jump in here and add more or correct me. There really isn't much demand for MirageDrive kayaks with no MirageDrive so we don't want to get started with keeping inventory of each color and model for the off chance someone may want one. Then, do they want nothing at all? no rudder, hatches, bungees...like we do with out paddle series or do they want some stuff but not others? We also aren't able to do custom boats. It's just not something we're set up for or that makes sense for us to get started in. If someone wants a boat with certain parts removed, we prefer that the dealers take that on to customize the boat for the customer. Check with a few dealers in your area to see what they can offer you. There should be a significant discount with no MirageDrive included.

Author:	mmiller [ Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why I will not be buying a Hobie Revo 11
Brendan is correct. It's a production, warehousing, shipping and dealer stocking nightmare to offer too many variations. We have a lot of models and colors (SKUs) as it is. But... We do offer the option to dealers on a special order basis. They can purchase a hull only with paddle, seat and drive removed. We have a specific credit per seat position (Singles / Tandems). Due to the way they are packaged and warehoused here, we have to pull the parts prior to shipping. Reality is... we discourage it. It is far easier for the dealer to remove the parts and sell separately. Fyi... With the extra labor, handling, package pricing etc. involved, the credit does not equal the dealer cost for the parts when sold through our parts department. Have the dealer review with our sales department.

Author:	augaug [ Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why I will not be buying a Hobie Revo 11
Bcastile wrote: ... Then, do they want nothing at all? no rudder, hatches, bungees...like we do with out paddle series or do they want some stuff but not others? We also aren't able to do custom boats. It's just not something we're set up for or that makes sense for us to get started in. If someone wants a boat with certain parts removed, we prefer that the dealers take that on to customize the boat for the customer. .... mmiller wrote: ...Due to the way they are packaged and warehoused here, we have to pull the parts prior to shipping. Reality is... we discourage it. It is far easier for the dealer to remove the parts and sell separately. Fyi... With the extra labor, handling, package pricing etc. involved, the credit does not equal the dealer cost for the parts when sold through our parts department. ... Both of the above posts make sense to me. If it were me, I'd take the drive, keep it in brand new condition and reap the benefits when you sell the boat down the road. I'd pay extra for a used hull with a brand new, never used, still in the package, mirage drive!!

Author:	Roadrunner [ Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why I will not be buying a Hobie Revo 11
augaug wrote: If it were me, I'd take the drive, keep it in brand new condition and reap the benefits when you sell the boat down the road. Great advice! I've sold four Hobie kayaks over the years as I've updated. Having the boats complete and in excellent condition was met with quick sales at premium prices that enabled me to "modernize" at a reasonable cost. In the long run, it's not economical to buy an incomplete Mirage kayak to "save money". Selling it later (which eventually always happens) without a Drive is like selling a car without a motor. Replacing the Drive later can only be done at a premium price (rather than its discounted price when included in the initial purchase). So value is lost either way. The other accessories follow suit, but on a much smaller scale.

Author:	Grampa Spey [ Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Why I will not be buying a Hobie Revo 11
Bcastile wrote: Matt may jump in here and add more or correct me. There really isn't much demand for MirageDrive kayaks with no MirageDrive so we don't want to get started with keeping inventory of each color and model for the off chance someone may want one. Then, do they want nothing at all? no rudder, hatches, bungees...like we do with out paddle series or do they want some stuff but not others? We also aren't able to do custom boats. It's just not something we're set up for or that makes sense for us to get started in. If someone wants a boat with certain parts removed, we prefer that the dealers take that on to customize the boat for the customer. Check with a few dealers in your area to see what they can offer you. There should be a significant discount with no MirageDrive included. Actually Hobie can offer a hull only to dealers if requested as per Matt Miller: We do offer the option to dealers on a special order basis. They can purchase a hull only with paddle, seat and drive removed. We have a specific credit per seat position (Singles / Tandems). Due to the way they are packaged and warehoused here, we have to pull the parts prior to shipping. Reality is... we discourage it. It is far easier for the dealer to remove the parts and sell separately. Fyi... With the extra labor, handling, package pricing etc. involved, the credit does not equal the dealer cost for the parts when sold through our parts department. Have the dealer review with our sales department. _________________ Matt Miller Hobie Cat USA

Author:	bsee [ Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Why I will not be buying a Hobie Revo 11
It's expensive insurance, but having one drive more than you need is a good way to avoid wrecking a trip because of a mechanical issue. Either way, though, Hobie and the dealer network should be able to make sure that a customer understands the pros and cons of buying a hull without accessories. If the customer still wants to buy it that way, they should be able to accommodate.

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Author:	Grampa Spey [ Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thanks BSEE
I own an Oasis and have two mirages and two paddles. My wife is recovering from surgery and will not be yakking until Spring 2012. So my Oasis is being stored from now until next Spring. The Revo 11 would be for me for solo use now and in the future. So I would have a back up mirage and another mirage for use in the Revo 11. My issue would be solved if Hobie listened your last sentence below: "If the customer still wants to buy (a hull without accessories), they (Hobie) should be able to accommodate." I'm not trying do anything that is illegal, criminal or immoral. I don't need a third Mirage, Paddle and cassette if I buy a Revo 11. Just sell me a Hull Only Revo 11. bsee wrote: It's expensive insurance, but having one drive more than you need is a good way to avoid wrecking a trip because of a mechanical issue. Either way, though, Hobie and the dealer network should be able to make sure that a customer understands the pros and cons of buying a hull without accessories. If the customer still wants to buy it that way, they should be able to accommodate.