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2015 models still worth getting the turbo fins?
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=53287		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  ad905 [ Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:28 am ]
Post subject:  2015 models still worth getting the turbo fins?
Hey all, first post. Will be looking to get a new Hobie Kayak very soon, sooo what is the consensus on the new fins? Are the turbo's still worth getting? Probably looking at the new revolution yak. Just waiting for hobie to sort it out and release the 2015 models in Australia!!
Author:  mmiller [ Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 models still worth getting the turbo fins?
Discussion on the fins has been going on for years. The "ST" fins are not new. Basically it is like a three speed bike comparison. The original or what we now call "Comfort" fins are like being in 1st gear. The ST is like second and ST Turbo is like being in third gear.

I would give the ST a chance first!
Author:  pmmpete [ Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 models still worth getting the turbo fins?
It would be interesting to do a survey to see what percentage of people who regularly use a Mirage Drive kayak have upgraded to Turbo fins. I suspect that almost 100 percent of such people have upgraded to Turbo fins. It seems to me that it would make more sense to sell Mirage Drive kayaks with Turbo fins, and then let people who feel that it is too much work to pedal the Turbo fins downgrade to the original or ST fins. I suspect that virtually nobody would downgrade.
Author:  Jcanracer [ Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 models still worth getting the turbo fins?
pmmpete wrote:
It would be interesting to do a survey to see what percentage of people who regularly use a Mirage Drive kayak have upgraded to Turbo fins. I suspect that almost 100 percent of such people have upgraded to Turbo fins. It seems to me that it would make more sense to sell Mirage Drive kayaks with Turbo fins, and then let people who feel that it is too much work to pedal the Turbo fins downgrade to the original or ST fins. I suspect that virtually nobody would downgrade.


Its the first thing I do when I get a new Hobie: Buy Turbo fins.
However, since they now come with ST fins, I might be tempted to delay that purchase next year and give the new Blue fins a proper test run.
Author:  mmiller [ Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 models still worth getting the turbo fins?
No where even close to 100% switch over.

Our feeling is that first impressions are VERY important. The ease of use is critical for that. The ST is a perfect balance though.
Author:  Thinwater skinner [ Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 models still worth getting the turbo fins?
Matt answer me this:

The regular fins are shorter and have a shorter stroke thus less distance moved per full stroke of the mirage drive? Yes or no?

The turbo fins are longer and would move you father per full stroke of the mirage drive? Yes or No?

Either yes or no I would contend that the effort expelled for either is about the same. The greatest advantage for the standard fins would be used in shallow water.

Engergy exerted in about the same for all three.

All I use is turbo and my BIL has standard and he always keeps up with me on the lake trips when we are moving from one spot to another.
Author:  mmiller [ Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 models still worth getting the turbo fins?
Your analysis is correct... except for a new user. The Turbo fins are stiff and harder to push. Old story about the three speed bike. Easier to start in first gear.

The next issue is depth. The Turbo fins are longer and require a bit more care in shallow water.

We do include Turbo fins in several models that are considered best with Turbos.
Author:  TI_Tom [ Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 models still worth getting the turbo fins?
Matt,
Are the new Islands still coming standard with the turbo fins?
Author:  Roadrunner [ Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 models still worth getting the turbo fins?
Thinwater skinner wrote:
The regular fins are shorter and have a shorter stroke? Yes or no?
Actually same stroke, smaller sweep
Quote:
Either yes or no I would contend that the effort expelled for either is about the same. The greatest advantage for the standard fins would be used in shallow water.
Both STs and ST Turbos are more efficient than standard fins at all speeds, but especially at higher speeds where standard fins tend to "mush out". Here's a relative comparison using the Adventure with the same person, same boat:

Slow cruise (40 cycles per minute):
Standard fins 3.0 MPH
ST fins 3.4 MPH
ST Turbo fins 4.5 MPH

Fast cruise (60 cycles per minute):
Standard fins 4.4 MPH
ST fins 5.0 MPH
ST Turbo fins 5.7 MPH

Sprint speed (average, using GPS):
Standard fins 6.5 MPH
ST fins 7.3 MPH
ST Turbo fins 7.5 MPH

The greatest advantage of standard fins is the tremendous amount of abuse they can take. They would be best, for example when traveling over oyster beds in shallow water. the current STs and Turbos are much tougher than the early versions, but not as thick as standard fins.

If you know how to "flutter" the fins, fin length makes no difference in shallow water.
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=18705&p=91916&hilit#p91916
If getting in the shallowest possible water is important and you can't flutter for some reason, you could just as easily change your boat selection -- the Adventure (Revolution 16) has the shallowest draft (not including inflatables); or pin the fins against the hull and break out the paddle.
Quote:
Engergy exerted in about the same for all three.
No. Turbos are most efficient, followed closely by STs (but you have to use a faster cadence to make up the smaller size/easier push). 8)
Author:  mmiller [ Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 models still worth getting the turbo fins?
TI_Tom wrote:
Matt,
Are the new Islands still coming standard with the turbo fins?


Yes, due to the higher speeds... Island have Turbos as standard equipment.
Author:  ad905 [ Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 models still worth getting the turbo fins?
Sorry I should have phrased my question better, my question was specific to the 2015s, could it be that their supposed added efficiency means turbo fins may not be required? Also I would be interested to hear people opinion on this added efficiency too.
Author:  Roadrunner [ Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 models still worth getting the turbo fins?
Not directly. Fin performance is not really related to Drive performance. The GT Drive is not significantly faster per se, but has less operating friction. So you can go longer/further with less fatigue. In other words, you should be able to sustain your desired pace longer. You can also use a higher performance fin with less effort. Boat speed is mostly determined by boat model, fin type and leg strength. That's my opinion. 8)
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