Hobie Forums :: View topic - Pedal Kayak as bike substitute for aerobic exercise

Certainly better than staring at a TV while on a stationary bike!

Only trouble is that the Mirage Drive is so terribly efficient that it doesn't take much effort to pedal it, even for long periods. I suppose you could attempt to get the boat up to maximum speed, which might be 4 to 7 MPH depending on the model, and hold it there for prescribed time. Otherwise if you want exercise, buy one of the other brands prop driven models. Now THOSE will give you a workout.

I have access to a small lake and am interested in trying a pedal kayak as a cycling workout substitute. My goal is to get a good workout outside as opposed to going to a gym.

tm3 wrote:

I have access to a small lake and am interested in trying a pedal kayak as a cycling workout substitute. My goal is to get a good workout outside as opposed to going to a gym.

Try this -- it will give you all the workout you can handle:

BTW, this guy is also a cyclist. The best smaller model would depend on your height. Wider boats are more difficult to paddle. The Revolution series might be a good option in this scenario. The boat pictured is a Revolution 16, sprinting at about 8 MPH (GPS) with GT Turbofins, but he's faster than most and not dragging any buckets. You can also de-tune your fins to make it harder to pedal (less efficient).

IMO, the cycling pedaling boats are nothing like cycling. I've owned a couple and find them to be slow, noisy and uncomfortable to operate.

As I stated earlier, you can get as much a workout as you want with Mirage drive just by increasing cadence/speed approaching hull speed. The following thread has a very useful chart:

https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 6&start=63

This chart shows representative power (watts) versus speed for a specific torqeedo electric motor on a specific Hobie kayak. Note how the curve increases more rapidly with speed. The chart stops with the maximum power output for this motor but you can extrapolate and see that beyond 5 mph more and more power will be required for the same incremental speed increase.

If you heart rate isn’t where you want your workout, just pedal faster (and go faster).

Peter

One more question for you: based on your experience, and based on my goal (reasonable workout, say hitting target HR for 45-60 minutes), do you consider a Hobie pedal kayak a reasonable option? Or should I just consider other training options (like a stationary trainer, for example)?

Author:	tm3 [ Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:17 am ]
Post subject:	Pedal Kayak as bike substitute for aerobic exercise
I found one thread on this but it is from 8 years ago so I'm re-asking with some additional questions. I have access to a small lake and am interested in trying a pedal kayak as a cycling workout substitute. My goal is to get a good workout outside as opposed to going to a gym. Intuitively, it would seem that the propellor drive pedal systems would be more like pedaling a bike (circular motion) and thus more suited for an ex-bike rider, but almost all of the threads that I have found by bike riders reference using the Hobie paddle drive system. I don't know if that is due to overall more Hobie kayaks out there or if it indicates that the Hobie system is superior for this application. Can anyone shed some light on this? Also, for those who have been there and done that, what features would optimize one pedal kayak over another for this application? I would think that a comfortable and adjustable seat is a key factor, but beyond that I don't know how length, weight, width, or any other specific boat features would play out. Finally, is there a specific model or models of Hobie pedal kayak that would be best suited for this application? Once I get things narrowed down some I plan on trying to find and visit a dealer, hopefully for an on water audition.

Author:	pdxfisher [ Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Pedal Kayak as bike substitute for aerobic exercise
I often do some extra pedaling for exercise when I am out fishing. I like to road bike and I will say that the Hobie is more like a stepper than a bike. For fit the seat has a height adjustment and the pedals adjust through 7 positions from close to you to far away. I think you should be able to get a find a good fit. You should be able to demo a Hobie through a local dealer (if there is one). You could see if you can find a good fit. One other piece of advice. If you want exercise then you should look at getting drift socks (look like underwater parachutes) in various sizes to drag behind you. You could adjust the "resistance" by having a few different sizes.

Author:	plfinch [ Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Pedal Kayak as bike substitute for aerobic exercise
Not sure what size “small” lake you have or how intensely aerobic you want to get. In order to get a hard work out in a short time, say 45 minutes, you need to be bumping up against the hull speed of the kayak which varies with length. On my Oasis a good workout starts around 4.25 mph with brief sprints pushing 5. On my shorter Outfitter it is about a half mph less. (These are both longer tandem kayaks.) On both I can go all day at 3 mph. At work-out speeds the size of the lake becomes an issue. A quite small and narrow lake or pond of say a quarter mile in length does not work well since you cover that length very quickly and spend a lot of time coasting and turning, unless maybe you can run large ovals or a figure 8. If you desire is to get an intense workout in under an hour on a small lake, look at the shorter kayaks. I have no experience with propeller pedal kayaks but am a mountain biker. I find the motion of the Hobie Mirage drive easier on my knees than the pedals of a bike and much prefer it. Peter

Author:	tm3 [ Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pedal Kayak as bike substitute for aerobic exercise
Thanks! I've not heard of a drift sock and will look into that. The lake is relatively small, I think maybe 250-300 acres and roughly in the shape of a plate. I think that it would not be a problem going in a circle or figure 8, or back and forth from one end to another. Certainly better than staring at a TV while on a stationary bike! Yes the target workout would be under 1 hour, probably a mix of longer sessions and shorter HIIT. A smaller boat would be nice from the standpoint of moving it around out of the water but I don't think that is going to be a big issue.

Author:	yakking [ Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pedal Kayak as bike substitute for aerobic exercise
tm3 wrote: Certainly better than staring at a TV while on a stationary bike! Have you tried Zwift? I actually just purchased a recumbent to replace my upwrongs. That with my oasis the 2 seating positions are almost identical.

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Author:	Tom Kirkman [ Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Pedal Kayak as bike substitute for aerobic exercise
Only trouble is that the Mirage Drive is so terribly efficient that it doesn't take much effort to pedal it, even for long periods. I suppose you could attempt to get the boat up to maximum speed, which might be 4 to 7 MPH depending on the model, and hold it there for prescribed time. Otherwise if you want exercise, buy one of the other brands prop driven models. Now THOSE will give you a workout.

Author:	tm3 [ Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pedal Kayak as bike substitute for aerobic exercise
Tom Kirkman wrote: Only trouble is that the Mirage Drive is so terribly efficient that it doesn't take much effort to pedal it, even for long periods. I suppose you could attempt to get the boat up to maximum speed, which might be 4 to 7 MPH depending on the model, and hold it there for prescribed time. Otherwise if you want exercise, buy one of the other brands prop driven models. Now THOSE will give you a workout. That is helpful information. I would think that most pedal kayakers are fisherman who want to get from point A to point B with less effort, not more. So one of my most basic questions is if driving a pedal kayak is analogous to, say, riding a bike in a 20" gear on flat road -- gets from point A to point B (eventually) but doesn't burn much energy doing it. I have heard some Hobie owners, however, say that they can get "quite a workout." Guess it may depend on what one calls a "workout." And it may depend on the drive ratio of the pedal system.

Author:	Roadrunner [ Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pedal Kayak as bike substitute for aerobic exercise
tm3 wrote: I have access to a small lake and am interested in trying a pedal kayak as a cycling workout substitute. My goal is to get a good workout outside as opposed to going to a gym. Try this -- it will give you all the workout you can handle: BTW, this guy is also a cyclist. The best smaller model would depend on your height. Wider boats are more difficult to paddle. The Revolution series might be a good option in this scenario. The boat pictured is a Revolution 16, sprinting at about 8 MPH (GPS) with GT Turbofins, but he's faster than most and not dragging any buckets. You can also de-tune your fins to make it harder to pedal (less efficient). If you really want to go slow, just leave your wheels (cart) attached when you launch and you'll be limited to about 2 MPH. IMO, the cycling pedaling boats are nothing like cycling. I've owned a couple and find them to be slow, noisy and uncomfortable to operate.

Author:	tm3 [ Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pedal Kayak as bike substitute for aerobic exercise
Roadrunner wrote: tm3 wrote: I have access to a small lake and am interested in trying a pedal kayak as a cycling workout substitute. My goal is to get a good workout outside as opposed to going to a gym. Try this -- it will give you all the workout you can handle: BTW, this guy is also a cyclist. The best smaller model would depend on your height. Wider boats are more difficult to paddle. The Revolution series might be a good option in this scenario. The boat pictured is a Revolution 16, sprinting at about 8 MPH (GPS) with GT Turbofins, but he's faster than most and not dragging any buckets. You can also de-tune your fins to make it harder to pedal (less efficient). IMO, the cycling pedaling boats are nothing like cycling. I've owned a couple and find them to be slow, noisy and uncomfortable to operate. Impressive pic! Have you used both the Mirage drive system and the propel type system?

Author:	Roadrunner [ Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pedal Kayak as bike substitute for aerobic exercise
Yes. I've been using the Mirage Drives for 19 years and also do some occasional racing. I've also had a Propel Slayer, and before that a Water Bike by Sea Cycle. I have tried several others a well. The most annoying thing about the circular drive is, unlike a bicycle, there is a dead spot at the bottom of each stroke you have to push through. As a result, the prop continually revs up and down, depending on what part of the stroke you're pushing, so it's impossible to design a prop that is reasonably efficient. There is no dead spot with the Hobie, although the fins also continually change speed; but the fin changes pitch to match, so that's why they are uniquely efficient IMO. Additionally, there's more knee bending action with the circular drive that, after 2 meniscus operations, is pretty uncomfortable at the top of the stroke. Then there is the transmission whirring -- hard to be quiet on the water if you want to take in nature. There are other limitations as well, like maintenance, minimum depth requirement (with the Mirage Drive, you can flutter the fins to go pretty shallow, even with Turbos). For trolling, they're probably fine, although they tend to suck up sea grass (where it exists), which jambs the prop and has to be cleared by hand. The only circular drive that I've liked so far was a custom rig built by an engineer/machinist. It was a rather unusual looking rig, but fast and comfortable! AND, he used a custom folding prop to shed weeds and streamline when coasting. Interestingly, my lake (Lake Hodges) is about 10 miles long. Virtually all the Propel style boats are fishermen, they never seem to go backwards, and they never seem to venture beyond a mile from the launch ramp. The Hobies (including fishermen) are all over the lake. To me, that speaks volumes about the propulsion system. This is probably more information than you were looking for, but that's why I drive the Hobies and not something else.

Author:	tm3 [ Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Pedal Kayak as bike substitute for aerobic exercise
Thanks, Roadrunner! It is great to get perspective from someone who is a cyclist and has experience with both types of pedal kayaks. One more question for you: based on your experience, and based on my goal (reasonable workout, say hitting target HR for 45-60 minutes), do you consider a Hobie pedal kayak a reasonable option? Or should I just consider other training options (like a stationary trainer, for example)? I'm sure that I would find some other uses for a pedal kayak, such as just tooling around on the water or maybe even fishing, but if its not going to work well for my primary intent I should probably drop the idea.

Author:	plfinch [ Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pedal Kayak as bike substitute for aerobic exercise
As I stated earlier, you can get as much a workout as you want with Mirage drive just by increasing cadence/speed approaching hull speed. The following thread has a very useful chart: https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 6&start=63 This chart shows representative power (watts) versus speed for a specific torqeedo electric motor on a specific Hobie kayak. Note how the curve increases more rapidly with speed. The chart stops with the maximum power output for this motor but you can extrapolate and see that beyond 5 mph more and more power will be required for the same incremental speed increase. If you heart rate isn’t where you want your workout, just pedal faster (and go faster). Peter

Author:	tm3 [ Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Pedal Kayak as bike substitute for aerobic exercise
plfinch wrote: As I stated earlier, you can get as much a workout as you want with Mirage drive just by increasing cadence/speed approaching hull speed. The following thread has a very useful chart: https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 6&start=63 This chart shows representative power (watts) versus speed for a specific torqeedo electric motor on a specific Hobie kayak. Note how the curve increases more rapidly with speed. The chart stops with the maximum power output for this motor but you can extrapolate and see that beyond 5 mph more and more power will be required for the same incremental speed increase. If you heart rate isn’t where you want your workout, just pedal faster (and go faster). Peter That chart is helpful. Thanks for the clarification!

Author:	Swfinatic [ Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Pedal Kayak as bike substitute for aerobic exercise
IMO you can definitely get a workout peddling a Hobie Mirage drive. Yes they are more efficient than other pedal drives (we have kayaks with both styles). However if you pedal at a brisk pace you'll get a solid workout. Throw in some wind and it's even better going against it. A few days ago I was out fishing and left my anchor at home. Was fishing with bait for catfish and need to suspend fish a particular spot. Wind was blowing 12-15 mph. I slowly pedaled in one spot for about 3 hours. That combined with the 1.5 mile trip to the fishing spot and the 1.5 mile trip back into the wind I had a good enough workout I could feel it the next day. The wider/heavier kayaks like the Pro Anglers will give you the best workout but they can be a chore to load and transport without a trailer. You can get a solid workout from a Compass or Outback. My .02 cents.

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Author:	Roadrunner [ Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Pedal Kayak as bike substitute for aerobic exercise
tm3 wrote: One more question for you: based on your experience, and based on my goal (reasonable workout, say hitting target HR for 45-60 minutes), do you consider a Hobie pedal kayak a reasonable option? Or should I just consider other training options (like a stationary trainer, for example)? This is a tough question. It depends a lot on your age and level of fitness. It also depends on what you enjoy -- any exercise that isn't fun or at least rewarding, isn't done. IMO, the Mirage Drive is a natural for a cyclist. Add paddlework and you have a complete workout. (good paddlework is an acquired skill -- should work the back, shoulders, triceps and core). Add HIIT and you can wipe yourself out in no time if you want a really hard workout. So it's all there IMO. You would definitely need Turbofins to provide some resistance. You can further adjust resistance through the mast length (on the MD 180) or the "outhaul clew" on the GT or V-2 Drive. The Drive you wind up with depends on whether your boat is new or used and what year. It's best to demonstrate any boat before you buy if possible!