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Twist and Stow Rudder
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8975		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Flintstone [ Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Twist and Stow Rudder
Hi,

I've had a Mirage Outback for about 18mths now- very happy with it. but as it has the 'old' type rudder I'd like to investigate the possibilities of retrofitting the 'Twist and Stow' rudder assembly to my yak.

I know there is a 'kit' for the Adventure but there appears to be nothing similar for the Outback. The catalogues etc. do not have sufficient detail i.e.dimensions, to allow me to work out if a retrofit is possible.
I don't have access to a yak with 'T&S' rudder to work it out myself.

My reasons for the retrofit is it keeps 'gettin in the way'(bent etc) and I want to fit the larger blade for sailing.

(UK Yaker)
Author:  Jbernier [ Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:22 am ]
Post subject: 
There is no 'kit' for the Adventure - you must be getting something confused. Hobie has no way of upgrading a old style to new - there are many differences...including the internal lines - and crank arms...as well the handles - sorry but it isn't something that Hobie has done or plans to develop.
Author:  Roadrunner [ Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi Flintstone and welcome to the forum. Your conversion can be done if you're handy (or know someone who is). Check out this post from Stringy -- a really nice "How To"!
http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewt ... highlight=

You'll find lots of ideas for customizing and accessorizing by looking through the posts on the forum. 8)
Author:  Flintstone [ Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the update. I've trolled the forums but hadn't found anything suitable on the "Twist and Stow" rudder. AS with most things the suppliers tend to deny things can be done and often dont give the customers credit for even being a little bit clever, and more. I'll check the link and follow from there. Actually I only wanted the dimennsions and parts required but Hobie wont supply them
If its made of wood or plastic it can be made into something different.

Thanks again
Author:  stringy [ Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
G'Day Flintstone,
As you can see from RR's supplied link the conversion can be done. It is still working well on my Tandem.
There are two main aspects to this conversion:
1-Mounting the Rudder Mechanism to the kayak
2-Deciding on how you want the lines to work
As Hobie have changed the up/down line mechanism for the T&S on the AI and Adventure, if I was converting one now I would try to use the much improved newer system. I now have an 08 AI and I have fitted the upgrade to an 07 AI. It is a simpler line system that allows more positive lockdown and lift up. The AI line upgrade kit could probably be adapted to your Outback. You would have to add a pulley block on both sides in the bow for the lines to wrap around. As the Outback is shorter the lines would need shortening but I reckon it could be done.

Getting back to 1) though, you need to work out a way to attach the T&S mechanism to the older pull up system. The link details how I did it, though once again I would change some things if I was doing it again. I wouldn't cut the original lift up rod and I would notch the rudder for a better fit as RR suggested.
Hobie will supply the parts. I was surprised at how inexpensive the T&S with sailing rudder was when I first thought about this conversion so I ordered it in. You would also need to order a rudder pin. It made it much easier working out how to do it with the parts at hand.
Keep us posted :wink:
Author:  Flintstone [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:47 am ]
Post subject:  Twist n Stow rudder retrofit
Many thanks RR & Stringy for the replies and links, and to the guys re:- the Links. I'll order the T&S Rudder assembly and a Rudder Pin and probably go with the notch adaptation.
All of the instructions and photographs are pretty clear and easy to follow or work out during the fitting process such as the control lines.

I do love the way Hobie denies that modifications like this can be done. You'd think they'd want to develop them themselves- maybe they just want to sell 'complete' new boats.

F'stone
Author:  The Dog [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:38 am ]
Post subject: 
Flinstone...

I don't think Hobie denied that the mods could be done. I think the answer they gave was just that they didn't have one.

Your initial question (at least to me) sounded like you wanted to know which Hobie part to use. So Jacque's reply was correct.

And based on the pile of parts I have here at the store, Hobie USA is definitely not a "complete boats only" company. Of course, Hobie Europe may be a different story.

Brian C
Author:  mmiller [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Twist n Stow rudder retrofit
Flintstone wrote:
I do love the way Hobie denies that modifications like this can be done.


Flintstone,

As per each of your email requests to us and the Europe distributor. We never said this could not be done... only that it would have to be done by someone (like yourself)... not us. We do not have a factory solution for this purpose. We have no specifications on how it might be done. I am happy that you have been directed to another like minded Hobie user though. Great stuff... if you want to convert.
Author:  Flintstone [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the info, and the support

And yes Hobie-Europe is a different story.
I asked for advice from the Hobie stand at the recent Canoexpo in the UK, that I deliberately attended due to the participation of Hobie, and got no support whatsoever and they only had complete boats and catalogues.

That was the reason I contacted USA Support to begin with.

The dealers were not much better in the UK as evidence now they have all or nearly all been changed, maybe the service will change too.

Rgds

F'stone
Author:  conservation101 [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Flintstone:

Good luck on your rudder mod, and let us know how it's going.

Hobie sure makes some great products, and I for one am impressed with their ability to bring innovations to the market. These folks don't sit on their laurels, they gather no moss. I'm glad for that.

I guess the same could be said for us hard-core modders. There is something addictive and supremely satisfying about taking a product and actually making it better, customizing it for your own use. If it never sees the light of day on a kayak showroom, we still get to enjoy the fruits of our own creativity.

I became a mods freak with police scanners years ago, and although we can't take credit for this, some of the designs formulated by our "underground" cadre of tinkerers later appeared in the market -- such as using a computer's printer port to program the scanner's memory banks. Those were heady days.

The march of technology is amazing, and everyone has a hand in it one way or the other. To think this all got started with an early Hominid a couple of million years back -- who, needing a way to cut some meat from a fallen beast before the lions moved in, chipped a cobble into a crude but functional stone tool.

Sorry Flintstone, for preaching to the pulpit.

Onwards into uncharted waters, you bearers of the torch of progress!
Author:  Flintstone [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Twist & Stow Rudder
Thanks Con'101,

I've now realised how much more my customer support in the UK was lacking than I previouslly thought. I got no manual, instructions, care pack, dvd, warranty etc. - just a 'boat'.

As for the 'tinkering',yes it is good there are 'tinkerers' about, due credit to Hobie for product that is 'tinkerable'.

I'm an electronics tinkerer too, Radio Ham, ex-profesion radar/telecomms engineer.

Everything is adaptable, it just takes some humans longer than others.

F'stone (UK)

? where are all the other UK Hobie Yakers? ([email protected])
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