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Speed trials?
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8993		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Bombadil [ Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Speed trials?
I have decided to buy a Hobie when I have the money saved. I seem to have settled on a Revolution for fishing and recreational use. I wonder, how well does it paddle? I hear the Outback doesn't paddle so well and assume the Adventure paddles quite well. The option to paddle is important to me.

Anyway, through all my searching on the net to find a kayak best suited for me I was surprised that there aren't any speed trials done. It would be difficult to have a real scientific evaluation, and understandably that is a good reason not to post anything of the sort. Hull speed and technical jargon doesn't mean much to anyone but is real information. I would like to see data on the speed of the various models peddled and paddled by the same person and contrasted to the same person in a similar kayak. Why is no such data available? I know that isn't the most important thing, but it would be nice if something were posted in the FAQ section, surely I can't be the only one who's asked. The two main reasons that I was skeptical of the Mirage drive were: how fast is it?, and, how durable is it? The former can be quantified, and I think, should be, at least in some regard.
Author:  fishin' fool [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Welcome Bombadil...

I have a Revo and like you suggest, it will paddle fairly well, some say even better then the Adventure. The Adventure will be the quickest pedaling yak of the three.

As far as speed trial, quantifying speed and durability, come on, it's a kayak not a Cigarette or a Fountain.

Go out and pedal some, paddle some, catch some fish.........relax awhile.
Author:  TDRILL [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Bombadil,

It has been done. It will all be unofficial and a bit up to interpretation, but people have taken out their yaks to test speeds. Usually this is to quantify the difference between stock fins vs ST fins vs ST Turbo fins, but I have seen data between models too. The ones who are good, set up a stretch to run in and then run the yak over that distance at a particular cadence aka strokes (pedals) per minute or sometimes even heart rate. They then track everything on a GPS to get MPH etc.

Anywho, I am not going to go searching for it, but I can tell you what site to go to so you can spend the time perusing posts. I don't usually like posting links to other forums, but I think they shut down the PM system so I don't have much of a choice. It may be buried in posts, but the information is def there in several locations. I have read about it from several different yakers.
KFS.com
http://kfs.infopop.cc/eve/forums


Fishin' Fool,
Yep, some people really get into it and actually test this stuff in their free time. Don't know that I would, but I sure am glad some people do it so that we all get some pretty cool information.
Author:  Roadrunner [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, info is all over the place. Here is some fin vs. fin and boat-to-boat info:

Quote:
Originally posted by slopoke:
Here is what I get with the Adventure (light/variable wind, no tide or current -- GPS)

Slow cruise (40 cycles per minute):
Standard fins 3.0 MPH
ST fins 3.4 MPH
ST Turbo fins 4.5 MPH

Fast cruise (60 cycles per minute):
Standard fins 4.4 MPH
ST fins 5.0 MPH
ST Turbo fins 5.7 MPH

Sprint speed (average, using GPS):
Standard fins 6.5 MPH
ST fins 7.3 MPH
ST Turbo fins 7.5 MPH

One hour times MPH(fast cruise +/-) w/ Turbofins:

Adventure: 5.4 +/- .2 MPH
Revo / Classic 5.1
Oasis solo or w/ wife 5.0
Outback 4.8
Others not tried.

Headwind/chop as described (estimated)w/ Turbofins
Adventure -.3
Revo, Oasis tandem -.4
Classic, Oasis solo, Outback -.5 to -.6
:wink:


And here is a pedal vs. paddle comparo:

Quote:
Originally posted by Thumper:
My granddaughter got me a new heart rate moniter and here is what I found:

Heart rate pedaling Adventure w/ Turbofins 4 MPH: 96 BPM

Heart rate paddling Adventure (fins left in place) 4 MPH: 110 BPM

Speed paddling Adventure at 96 BPM: 3.4 MPH

Pretty noticeable difference in effort. To be fair, I'm probably better at pedaling than paddling.


I understand the poor guy had a heart attack from the HRM interfering with his pace maker -- at least he got some good data in first! Fishin' fool is right -- go out, relax and enjoy your new Hobie while you can. If you need more speed than this while fishing, you 'll have to look into a motor boat! Once you take a test drive you'll understand (bring your GPS if you have one). 8)
Author:  Bombadil [ Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the info. I've never been able to do more than guess how fast I'm going in the past. I can't wait to get one.
Author:  Bombadil [ Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
fishin' fool wrote:
Welcome Bombadil...

I have a Revo and like you suggest, it will paddle fairly well, some say even better then the Adventure. The Adventure will be the quickest pedaling yak of the three.

As far as speed trial, quantifying speed and durability, come on, it's a kayak not a Cigarette or a Fountain.

Go out and pedal some, paddle some, catch some fish.........relax awhile.

I hear ya. I'd just like to know what it'll do. I work too much right now to ever make it to a trial exhibit, but I'm fixing that soon. Some times I'm all about taking it easy and catching some fish or cruising, but I'm sure I'd like to run flat out now and then and cover some distance. I'd never change my mind on getting a Hobie even if it were slower, but some comparisons would be nice. The info in the one post was very good, but it's a little inadequate. Hobie should have better info than that, in my opinion, especially if they think it's faster than other kayaks. I've been conned more than once in my time and as far as I'm concerned not having such info available is the same as saying our boat is slower. Not that I'm making that assertion, that's just how I game things out. Take hepa filters vs. ionizers. Hepa filters: tons of info on how well they work, ionizers just tell you to take their word on it. I think I'll pass and get a hepa filter, thank you.
Author:  Brazos [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:02 am ]
Post subject: 
Bombadil
I have a Outback. I have not read a bunch of scientific research heck I cant even spell it. But my yak will go 2.5 mph against a light wind. Hardly putting out any effort. 6 mph if you want to break a sweat. As far as power goes my father in law and wife was in a power boat we launched at the Texas City Dike the tide was out and the water was super skinny. They were about to get blown into the rocks so I told my wife to hold on to the back of my yak and I was able to pull them to deeper water with no problem. I would not have any other kind of kayak. Mirage Drive yaks rule. 8)
Brazos
Author:  Thomas [ Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have a Mirage Outback. With peddles it keeps up well with even the better traditional kayakers who know how to paddle fairly hard. But paddling the Outback is a different story. After an 18 mile trip down the Des Moines River, with howling headwinds for 15 of those 18 miles, I found that I had to paddle my short boat MUCH harder than my traditional lenght kayak friends to stay with the pack. I also badly needed the rudder down at all times to track well.

On that trip I had foolishly decided, just before put-in, to not take my drive because the river had very shallow areas and lots of "sand dunes". After that trek, I promised myself that I'd take my drive on ALL long "floats" -- even if the drive stayed unused and lashed to my boat deck all the way. If I had the drive onboard for use in the deeper stretches of that river, my arms would still be attached to me today.

You may already know this but a general rule of thumb: the longer and narrower a yak is, the more efficient it'll be to paddle.

One other comment: I LOVE my Outback on lakes. But the keel is deeply rounded. So in shallow waters I'm the first to ground. And in moving river water I am always worried about hitting an underground log. I've noticed that traditional flatter keeled kayaks can glide (or scrape) over them. My Outback, on the other hand, gets super tippy when thrust on top of a log.

My next yak will paddle better, be longer hulled, and have a flatter bottom. I'm dreaming, like you, about the Revolution and Adventurer!

Thomas
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