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Differences between the various versions of Hobie 18 ????
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=14843		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  theomi [ Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:24 am ]
Post subject:  Differences between the various versions of Hobie 18 ????
Could you help me to understand the main differences between the Hobie “Classic”, the “SE”, the “Magnum”, the “Formula” and the “SX” ?

I thought that the SX has a taller mast & mylar sails - means better performances than the classic Hobie.
But I discover that the rating of the SX (Small Catamaran Handicap Rating System) is 1.08 to compare to 1.008 for a Formula and 1.060 for the Magnum ! (1.00 is the rating for a F18)

Could you help me ?
Author:  MUST5429 [ Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Differences between the various versions of Hobie 18 ????
look in FAQ.
Matt Miller has posted the definitive answers to your question.
Author:  mmiller [ Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Differences between the various versions of Hobie 18 ????
http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12780
Author:  theomi [ Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Differences between the various versions of Hobie 18 ????
I saw this page but I am lost.

Hobie 18 Standard and SE have the same features (and the same performances).
The differences are only link to color of tramp and sail. In other words, must have the same rating.

Hobie 18 Formula made in Europe has taller mast, mylar main and jib and due to that better performances (that could explain the rating of 1.008 better than the 1.06 of the Standard)
But the Hobie 18 Formula made in the US has the same feature than a standard (and must have in this case the same rating) ?

The Magnum in US is a Standard with short wings
But in Europe, there are also Standard Hobie with long wings (as those of the SX in US)

You say that the SX in Europe is a Formula (means with taller mast) + long wings.
In this case, why the rating is 1,084 compare to 1,06 for the Magnum ?
Author:  ncmbm [ Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Differences between the various versions of Hobie 18 ????
In the US there are 2 boats, the standard 18 and the SX. The basic difference is the mast height. The magnum wings or SX wings can be installed on any 18, but that does not make it one boat or the other.
The SX has a messed up rating because so few were actively raced, the 18 number can only be achieved by an excellent skipper. I wouldn't worry about the numbers, it is what it is. You will most likely never see a formula 18 on the water, in the US that was a standard with white beams and mast.
So, really just the 2 boats in many configurations.
Author:  Genmar Star [ Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Differences between the various versions of Hobie 18 ????
I have actually been looking into this myself and its unfortunate a reasonable answer does not exist to this question. While I love my 18 and it will always be my main ride it is a poor choice for Portsmouth racing as it will never sail to its current numbers. Its best job is a beach boat.

ncmbm wrote:
The SX has a messed up rating because so few were actively raced, the 18 number can only be achieved by an excellent skipper.
With poor skippers on everthing else
Author:  hobiefanatic [ Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Differences between the various versions of Hobie 18 ????
Does the Magnum and the SE have the same mast length and sail area?
Author:  srm [ Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Differences between the various versions of Hobie 18 ????
hobiefanatic wrote:
Does the Magnum and the SE have the same mast length and sail area?


Yes. The only difference between the two is the wings. An 18 can easily be switched from SE (standard) to magnum or vice versa by adding or removing the wings.

An SX-18 has a taller rig and more sail area than a standard 18 in addition to having the wings.

sm
Author:  hobiefanatic [ Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Differences between the various versions of Hobie 18 ????
I often see Hobie 18s at open regattas listed as SXs. I've doubted they are a true SX, but rather an SE or MAgnum with a spinnaker added.
Author:  MUST5429 [ Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Differences between the various versions of Hobie 18 ????
hobiefanatic wrote:
I often see Hobie 18s at open regattas listed as SXs. I've doubted they are a true SX, but rather an SE or MAgnum with a spinnaker added.


A TRUE SX has the Taller mast and the vertically cut mylar sails, along with the longer set of wings.

Anything without those three is by definition NOT a SX.

A Hobie 18 with a standard mast and either incarnation of wings is just a Hobie 18 Magum or if you have the long wings and you really want to split hairs a Magnum with SX Wings.

The early mylar sails were prone to "premature delamination" (be careful how you say that)

Because of that, along with the relatively few that were produced, it would be almost unheard of to have
a fleet of even three "class legal" H-18 SX's in the same place at the same time. (I have NEVER Seen it)

If you want to class race, the SE rig is the way to go, if you want to add the wings (AKA Couches) for pleasure sailing that would be the best "crossover" setup.

If you just add a spinnaker you do NOT have a H-18 SX, you merely have a H-18SE, or H-18 Magnum with a spinnaker.

Reading back over that, it is almost clear. ( I Hope)

Stephen
Author:  hobiefanatic [ Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Differences between the various versions of Hobie 18 ????
I get the different configurations.

What i'm wondering is, if one was to list their rig as a 'SX', and it truly is a magnum with a spin, would they have an advantage? Disadvantage? by doing so.

I guess we need the ratings:

SX....... =

vs

Magnum...... + spinnaker =


My point is, I think there is a misconception by some. I'm thinking that when an entry is accepted at a regatta, they take any Hobie 18 with a spinnaker as an "SX".
Author:  mmiller [ Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Differences between the various versions of Hobie 18 ????
Ratings: http://www.ussailing.org/portsmouth/tables08/tables08mh.asp

This list has H18 and Magnum as one rating (No Spinnaker). Magnum is only an 18 with the magnum style wings. Weight of the wings offset and gain in hiking advantage as I recall.

Modifications: http://www.ussailing.org/portsmouth/tables08/modifications08.asp

Add a jib, spinnaker or other stuff changes the rating.

So an 18SX rates 71.3

H18 / Magnum rates 71.4

Add a spinnaker rates changes it .96 or H18 with spinnaker would be 70.44?
Author:  MUST5429 [ Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Differences between the various versions of Hobie 18 ????
hobiefanatic wrote:
I get the different configurations.
What i'm wondering is, if one was to list their rig as a 'SX', and it truly is a magnum with a spin, would they have an advantage? Disadvantage? by doing so.
I guess we need the ratings:
SX....... vs Magnum...... + spinnaker
My point is, I think there is a misconception by some.
I'm thinking that when an entry is accepted at a regatta,
they take any Hobie 18 with a spinnaker as an "SX".


Here's the data

MULTIHULL CLASSES NAPY D-PN WIND HC FOR HANDICAP RANGE
*************************CODE*********************0-1*******2-3***** 4****** 5-9 Those numbers are Beaufort Rating not windspeed
Hobie 18 & Magnum H18 ** 71.4*************76.8******73.5*******69.5*****66.8

Hobie SX-18 spi H18SX ***** 71.3*************75.5******73.0*******70.1*****66.3

As you can see, there really is not much difference.

Why you ask ? there are several different reasons.

First off There is a VERY Narrow band of wind where the wings are any advantage at all.
Too little wind the additional weight is a handicap.
too much wind the leeward wing gets hits by the waves and drags in the water and slows the boat down.

Second, the spinnaker is only an advantage on ONE leg of the course.
When these numbers were generated we were racing more triangle courses.

Third, By the time the SX came out, most of the top "go fast" sailors had moved on to the Hobie 20.
The SX was never sailed by that many of the "hot hands" in the first place,
and never long enough to generate the same kind of numbers that were created for the Original Hobie 18.

The original Hobie 18 was for a few years the "hot boat" and drew a lot of attention from many of the top sailors of the day.
As a result, today it is VERY difficult to sail the boat to it's PHRF/Portsmouth numbers.
Especially when you consider that the sails and boats are not nearly as stiff and crisp as they were back in the day
when the boat was more popular and they were cranking out 1000 + per year.

If someone shows up at an open regatta with aftermarket sails and/or a spinnaker, have the race committee slap them with a percentage penalty (5% OR 10%) of some sort,
or drop a point or two off of the established portsmouth rating and then see how things shake out.

That's my take on the question you ask. Hope it helps.

Stephen
Author:  ncmbm [ Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Differences between the various versions of Hobie 18 ????
My boat is as basterdized as a H18 can get. I have a H18se platform with a SX standing rig, a N20 self tacking jib, custom squaretop main and a Tiger spin. If the boat were raced as an SX it would be a portsmouth killer, as it is I run a number very close to the F18. I use the H18se number and take a hit for the mast, main and spin. My number is 66.8 after corrections, still a good open class boat in the right wind.
Author:  MUST5429 [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Differences between the various versions of Hobie 18 ????
ncmbm wrote:
My boat is as basterdized as a H18 can get.
What an unkind thing to say about your "ride"
If it were mine, I'd prefer to call it

Unique....

Different........

Exclusive......

Uncommon....

Individual .....

One of a kind ......

In a class by itself........
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