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| Rudder pin/bushing/cotter/grudgeon setup? http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=23289 |
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| Author: | sail681 [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Rudder pin/bushing/cotter/grudgeon setup? |
Just setting up my 'new' style rudder castings on a Hobie 18 Formula, after having used old style castings last year. Trying to figure out the right way to orient pins, black bushings and the casting. Here's how I believe it goes, but I'm struggling to understand how the upper black bushing stays in place: From the top here is what it looks like on the pin: 1 Cotter pin 2 Black bushing resting on the top side of the upper casting mount 3 top casting 4 top grudgeon 5 space down the pin, then grudgeon 6 black bushing 7 lower casting 8 no cotter pin in the lower hole because you can't see the hole (I bought some thin white H18 nylon bushings, but they don't seem to make any sense. The hole in the casting is way oversized for this thin white bushing. The black bushings properly fit the casting and the pin....) This seems to make sense except for the fact that if the pin slide up and bottoms out on the lip of the hull, doesn't the top black bushing fall out of the casting?? |
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| Author: | srm [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rudder pin/bushing/cotter/grudgeon setup? |
Sounds like you've got it set up right. I would add that you probably want to put a thin stainless steel washer between the upper gudgeon and the rudder casting. This will keep the stainless gudgeon from wearing into the bottom of the aluminum casting. Also, I usually epoxy the black bushings into the rudder castings. It's not required, and you won't lose the bushings if you don't do it, but it helps eliminate even more slop from the system. The thin white bushings are used with the original rudder system which had a smaller diameter rudder pin hole in the castings. sm |
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| Author: | sail681 [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rudder pin/bushing/cotter/grudgeon setup? |
Would your recommend a 2 part epoxy or a silicon caulk to hold the black bushings in place? |
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| Author: | srm [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rudder pin/bushing/cotter/grudgeon setup? |
I just use a five minute 2-part epoxy from the hardware store. Give the bushings a quick scuffing on the outside surface with some 80 grit paper. Mix up the epoxy and wipe a thin coat around the bushing. Then insert the bushings into the casting and slide the rudder pin thru the bushings to ensure they are aligned. Once the epoxy cures, install the rudder system on the boat. Just beware that if you ever have to replace a bushing, you may end up having to drill it out. sm |
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| Author: | Harry Murphey [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rudder pin/bushing/cotter/grudgeon setup? |
Gentlemen, Now I still use the "thin white bushings" (since 1987-88???) ... so I'm not familiar w/ the newer bushings .... BUT the upper most bushing should be installed from the bottom upwards into the casting. Install the SS washer as discribed between the upper gougeon and the casting (w/ bushing installed) And yes, it sometimes takes (3) hands to do this. If sailing in salt water use SS Rudder Pins ... Murrays are best ... hollow, lighter, stiffer (sorry MattM) I've installed the H-20 Crossbar Connecters .... Big improvement ... I recommend it highly!!!! Good Luck Harry Murphey H18Mag/Sail#9458 Div11/Fleet54 |
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| Author: | srm [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rudder pin/bushing/cotter/grudgeon setup? |
The new bushings are better than the old white nyliners. They last longer and are a tighter tolerance. I believe they're also longer so they provide more bearing surface against the pin. You can try to install the top bushing from the underside of the casting, but you may run into fit issues, especially if you put the stainless steel washer on top of the upper gudgeon. It's not a big deal, but you may have to file the flange of the bushing to make it fit. If you glue the bushing into the casting then it makes no difference either way. sm |
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| Author: | george seary [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rudder pin/bushing/cotter/grudgeon setup? |
1) Why does the upper bushing want to be installed from the bottom of the gudgeon? If the bushing gets loose in the gudgeon, it will slide down the rudder pin (whereas the bushing shoulder will keep it in place if installed from the top). 2) Would hot glue (rather than epoxy) be sufficient to hold the bushings in place? It would make it much easier to remove worn bushings (not having to drill out the epoxy). |
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| Author: | srm [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rudder pin/bushing/cotter/grudgeon setup? |
Quote: 1) Why does the upper bushing want to be installed from the bottom of the gudgeon? If the bushing gets loose in the gudgeon, it will slide down the rudder pin (whereas the bushing shoulder will keep it in place if installed from the top). The bushings we're talking about are installed in the rudder casting, not in the gudgeon. I'm not aware of any bushings for the actual gudgeon. The suggestion was to install the top bushing from the underside of the casting, rather than from the top of the casting. Doing this would lock the bushing in place and keep it from sliding up or down. The downside is that the "new" black bushings have a pretty hefty flange and the flange will probably not allow enough clearance between the casting and the gudgeon if installed this way. Quote: 2) Would hot glue (rather than epoxy) be sufficient to hold the bushings in place? It would make it much easier to remove worn bushings (not having to drill out the epoxy). You don't NEED to glue the bushings into the casting at all and they won't fall out if installed properly even if you do not glue them in. Gluing in the bushings is something that I have done on my boats because I have had some rudder castings with the holes a little oversized and I wanted to eliminate the slop betweeen the bushing and the casting. Hot glue might work but really, I think epoxy is better- it's a much more durable adhesive. These buhings last a long time too, so they don't need replacing often and if/when they do, drilling out really shouldn't be an issue. If you have trouble drilling through a plasic bushing and some epoxy, it's time to get new drill bits. sm |
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| Author: | sail681 [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rudder pin/bushing/cotter/grudgeon setup? |
Thanks everyone. When I get back to the boat in mid-May, I'll have all these printed notes to reference..... If I find some revelation, I'll post pics. The warm weather in the midwest is getting me fired up to get back on the water! |
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