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Jib Cars and cleats hard to release
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=38473		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  wscotterwin [ Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Jib Cars and cleats hard to release
Hi guys,
I raced an H18 for the third time this last weekend and this time with my 11 yr old son. What a profound experience to race with my son by the way but not the point of this post.

In all three races (I race with my wife too), my wife or my son have a hard time releasing the jib sheet on the stock cleats when the winds are heavy. As the skipper I have a habit of giving the jib just an extra pull just to get it tight as they don't have the strength needed to do it. I know this makes the problem worse.

I have them now moving the the center of the boat and releasing the sheet before I tack to make sure the sheet is free but I feel this is compromising the speed to accommodate the problem (especially in heaver winds).

I am now looking for a good aftermarket cleat that will release easier. Does anyone have a recommendation?
Author:  Harry Murphey [ Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Cars and cleats hard to release
Which Jib Blocks do you currently have ... the H18 came w/ two different jib blocks over it's production life ....

The first/early production .... were "Seaways".

Later production used "Harkin" Blocks.

Please identify what you currently have ... and we'll fiqure out what options are availible
Author:  wscotterwin [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Cars and cleats hard to release
I have a 1981 and a 1983 boat and they both have the Seaway cleats.
Author:  srm [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Cars and cleats hard to release
At minimum, switch out the cam cleats to Harken cleats. They are much easier to operate than the steel Seaway cleats. Or, replace the whole block with a Harken Ratchematic, which is a much better block all around. Getting the jib sheet to pop out of the cleat takes a bit of practice. There's a technique to getting the line to snap out, and some crews really struggle with this.

Another option would be to switch to Oxen blocks. They are easy to uncleat from anywhere on the boat, but they require that you pull the line in to uncleat them, so if you're wife or kid aren't strong enough to pull in the line, they still won't be able to uncleat it. They also have a habit of re-cleating inadvertently which is a bit of a PITA.

sm
Author:  wscotterwin [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Cars and cleats hard to release
The Harken Ratchematic sounds like the best option as the Oxen blocks seem like a continuation of the same problem. Where is the best place to get these?

Does Hobie require factory jib blocks to race or am I ok changing?
Author:  OlderBowman [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Cars and cleats hard to release
before upgrading your jib blocks, try re-positioning the cam cleat lead becket further up. it allows a little more room to uncleat downward. Also the technique is to have some slack in the jib sheet and whip the line so the loose fall snaps like a whip or towel to uncleat.

failing that, then examine replacement options.
Author:  srm [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Cars and cleats hard to release
Sorry, it's actually the Harken Hexaratchet, 2.25" block with becket and cam cleat. This is (was) the stock jib cleat used on the Hobie 18 after they discontinued the Seaways. You can get these blocks more or less anywhere- Hobie dealer, non-hobie dealer, Murrays, APS, even West Marine. They are used on tons of boats and very popular throughout the industry.

They aren't cheap (around $300 for the pair), so you may want to consider swapping out just the cleats. The Harken cam cleats operate much more nicely than the Seaways.

There are no restrictions on the manufacturer of the jib blocks, any brand/type is legal.

sm
Author:  msvphoto [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Cars and cleats hard to release
I love the Oxen blocks that came with my 18. My wife and daughter never had a problem uncleating them, even in high winds. Ultra expensive, but they came with the boat. I did need to get one rebuilt by Murrays, but they are awesome.
Author:  srm [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Cars and cleats hard to release
I used Oxen blocks for years and then this past weekend raced on a boat again that had them. There are two main issues that I find with the blocks-

1) There is a small spring inside or some part that eventually fails. When it does, the block locks up and will not release. It doesn't happen often, but when it does (and it will), it will ruin your race or your regatta.

2) The blocks can easily re-cleat accidentally. So if your lazy sheet is tensioned, you look down and you don't know whether it's because the Oxen block has re-cleated, or if someone is sitting on the line or its stuck somewhere else. You end up pulling on the line and yelling at your crew trying to figure out why the line won't go out. Traditional blocks, you can look at them and know instantly whether the line is cleated or not.

Otherwise, the Oxen blocks do exaclty as advertised- you can cleat and uncleat them from anywhere on the boat by simply tugging on the sheet.

sm
Author:  Tom Machette [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Cars and cleats hard to release
OlderBowman wrote:
before upgrading your jib blocks, try re-positioning the cam cleat lead becket further up. it allows a little more room to uncleat downward. Also the technique is to have some slack in the jib sheet and whip the line so the loose fall snaps like a whip or towel to uncleat.

failing that, then examine replacement options.



+1 on this, and whip towards the stern of the boat.

It also helps to have your jib cars in the right positions. Upwind 5-15 knts in the middle of the track, 15+ moving them towards the stern, and downwind all the way forward.

I vote for harken too.
Author:  Hobie Dude [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Cars and cleats hard to release
One thing that I did that made a world of difference for me was to mount the old school hobie "Dog Bone" between the jib car that slides in the track and the actual cleat. That extra 6" allows for the whip of the sheet to actually make it all the way to the cleat. When I had the stock setup I would whip the sheet and the whip would hit the tramp and die before it made it to the block. Give them a try first for $16, then if you don't like them go ahead and spend the $300 on a new set of blocks.

Image

I also have the jib cleating angle set as high as possible, which also helps big time.

Let me know if you have any questions,

Adam
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