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| Pig Tails on Jib Clew? http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=59459 |
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| Author: | Guinness [ Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Pig Tails on Jib Clew? |
Who pig tails their blocks off the jib clew for less sail distortion in light winds and easier tacking with less hang ups on the mast? If you do, I'm curious how long your tails are. Mine are 15" right now. My most regular crew complained that it was just another way for them to get hit in the head by a flopping block. My argument being you only get hit by one at a time this way. Curious if others like to do this or if I'm kind of alone on this one. It also lessens the amount of slack I have to deal with when single handing. |
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| Author: | srm [ Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pig Tails on Jib Clew? |
Yep, I use them. Most racers have pigtails on the jib blocks. It reduces the amount of jib sheet needed by a foot or two. Also allows you to tie the blocks onto the sail rather than use a shackle, so there's one less piece of metal to smack into the mast and one less way for the jib to hang up on the mast. If you crew is getting smacked by the jib blocks, then they're spending too much time on the wrong side of the boat.... sm |
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| Author: | Guinness [ Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pig Tails on Jib Clew? |
A lot of times I sail with 2 crew so in all but pretty heavy air they are not switching sides. Just chilling with their back against a wing. And in summer, we have an aweful lot of light air days. I definetly like the tails, as they just seem smoother. I've never shortened my jib sheet (44') as I use wings so the extra line is nice if I have the crew trap out. |
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| Author: | Fxloop [ Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pig Tails on Jib Clew? |
I have this on my Hobie 20 jib and it is GREAT! http://www.murrays.com/01-4015.html |
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| Author: | Skipshot [ Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pig Tails on Jib Clew? |
There is no downside to pigtails. I use a piece of line and use a bowline to tie the blocks, then a lark's head knot to secure it to the jib clew. |
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| Author: | srm [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pig Tails on Jib Clew? |
One thing I noticed is the Murrays description states that the pigtail "saves about 4 feet of sheeting/unsheeting per tack!" This is actually untrue and a common misconception about pigtails. They don't reduce the amount that you have to sheet in at all. What they do is shorten the length of "working" jibsheet so there is a little less line on the boat (the amount of jib sheet is reduced by the length of the pigtail). You still have to pull in and release the exact same amount of sheet per tack. sm |
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| Author: | shaunfroberts [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pig Tails on Jib Clew? |
Say whaaat? Beg to differ. It does reduce the amount of sheet that you work with on each tack. If the pig tail is two feet long, then thats four feet less sheet to deal with on each tack. -------------------|JIB ----@tail---------|JIB Shaun. |
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| Author: | mmiller [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pig Tails on Jib Clew? |
Makes sense... You don't have to sheet out as much to get the jib clew to the mast. |
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| Author: | srm [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pig Tails on Jib Clew? |
The clew is moving the exact same distance whether the blocks are attached directly to the sail or to a pigtail. Therefore, the exact same amount of line must pass through the blocks during a tack, so you are working the same amount of sheet per tack. All the pigtail does is eliminate a length of "dead" sheet. The reduction in the amount of sheet is equal to two times the length of the pigtail for a 2:1 jib sheet system, but then you have to add in the length of the pigtail, so effectively you have reduced the amount of jib line on the boat by the length of the pigtail. sm |
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| Author: | SabresfortheCup [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pig Tails on Jib Clew? |
srm wrote: The clew is moving the exact same distance whether the blocks are attached directly to the sail or to a pigtail. Therefore, the exact same amount of line must pass through the blocks during a tack, so you are working the same amount of sheet per tack. All the pigtail does is eliminate a length of "dead" sheet. The reduction in the amount of sheet is equal to two times the length of the pigtail for a 2:1 jib sheet system, but then you have to add in the length of the pigtail, so effectively you have reduced the amount of jib line on the boat by the length of the pigtail. Exactly. It's still a 2:1 purchase, so you will still need to pull in the same amount of jib sheet. The clew of the jib (or the pulley/sheave on the end of the pigtail) will move exactly half of the distance as the length of sheet that is pulled in, and this is true whether the pulley is fixed directly to the clew or to a pigtail. However, by effectively moving the pulley closer to the jib block, you are eliminating the need for a length of doubled up jibsheet. The pigtails reduce the overall length of jib sheet needed, and reduces weight on the clew of the jib, which is very helpful downwind and in light air. That is the primary reason to use pigtails. It does not reduce the amount of jib sheet on the trampoline, nor the amount of sheet you need to pull in or let out when tacking. |
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| Author: | Kaos [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pig Tails on Jib Clew? |
Wow, I never gave it this much thought. Thanks good stuff to know. I added my pig tail because my sheets were not long enough to get to the forestay when eased all the way out when putting the boat away after use. This way I could shackle the sheets to the forestay so they were not laying around on the boat or wrapping themselves around the greasy bottom of the mast. 
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| Author: | RushMan [ Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pig Tails on Jib Clew? |
srm wrote: The clew is moving the exact same distance whether the blocks are attached directly to the sail or to a pigtail. Therefore, the exact same amount of line must pass through the blocks during a tack, so you are working the same amount of sheet per tack. All the pigtail does is eliminate a length of "dead" sheet. The reduction in the amount of sheet is equal to two times the length of the pigtail for a 2:1 jib sheet system, but then you have to add in the length of the pigtail, so effectively you have reduced the amount of jib line on the boat by the length of the pigtail. sm That makes no sense to me. The pigtail reduces the amount of sheet required to be pulled on each tack by 2x the length of the pigtail |
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| Author: | srm [ Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pig Tails on Jib Clew? |
All you're doing is shifting the turning blocks (on the clew) and the cleating blocks (on the boat) closer together. Everything still needs to move the same distance, therefore no change in the amount of sheet passing through the blocks per tack. I don't know how to explain it any other way. Try experimenting with it for yourself if you want. sm |
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| Author: | srm [ Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pig Tails on Jib Clew? |
OK, another way to look at it (last shot here, then all you non-believers are on your own). The amount of sheet you need to pull in during a tack is equal to two times the distance that the "lazy" clew block on the jib has to move (two times because it is a 2:1 system). So with that in mind, think about it this way. You have your jib sheeted in tight for an upwind setting. Now take all of the slack out of the "lazy" sheet. Without a pigtail, the block needs to travel a distance of five feet to be fully sheeted on the new side (just throwing out a number) and there is a 14 inch gap between the clew block and the cleat block mounted on the deck. So 10 feet of line is pulled through during the tack. Now attach a 12 inch pigtail on the clew block. The clew block is 12 inches closer to the cleat block, but it still needs to move the full five feet to be fully sheeted in on the new tack. The only difference is that there is now only a 2 inch gap between the clew block and the cleat block when fully sheeted. The amount of line you have pulled through the cleat during the tack has not changed, still 10 feet, only the relative position of the blocks has changed. If you want to have faster tacks and quicker sheeting of the jib, the most important thing to do is to give your crew ample warning before the tack so they can prepare. This way they can undo any tangles and take all of the slack out of the lazy sheet before the tack. Otherwise, enlist a body builder as your crew and change to 1:1 jib sheeting. sm |
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| Author: | RushMan [ Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pig Tails on Jib Clew? |
well I never... This was bothering me so I have just done a very rough diagram and there is very little difference with or without pigtails! |
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