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| Moving on up... H16 vs H18 http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8886 |
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| Author: | HobieNewBee [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Moving on up... H16 vs H18 |
i bought a h16 last year and had a blast. Sailed on the lake, in the ocean, and in a race. I found a H18 for cheap (needs all new rigging) that im going to get. What is the differance between the 16 and 18. i know the rigging is different and stuff but what is that advantages and disadvantages of the 18 over the 16. |
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| Author: | srm [ Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:39 am ] |
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Probably two main advantages of 18 over 16 would be more carrying capacity and considerably harder to pitchpole. Other advantages would be a little more powerful, a little faster, and a little more tuneable. Also, the 18 has a naturally stiffer/stronger construction (the crossbar connection is more rigid). Some advantages of the 16 over the 18 would be generally a larger, more competetive racing fleet. The 16 is less complex (although some people prefer more complexity). Also, the 16 is still in production, so new parts are readily available. sm |
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| Author: | sunjammers [ Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:44 am ] |
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The main difference is dagger boards. New parts are going to be readily available for years to come, we can still get parts for H14's There are also the tunning aspect like srm pointed out. |
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| Author: | gofastshawn [ Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:22 pm ] |
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I did exactly what you are thinking of doing.I had a 16 from the time I was 14 yrs old to last sept.,I'm 41 now.Granted there were periods of time that my 16 sat in the barn unused 3 yrs here two years there,you get my drift.I always wanted a 18 because I am a tinkerer and I love to tune stuff.So last sept. I put an add on craigslist and sold my 16 and shopped around for an 18 and found a great deal.Anyway after racing the 18 a few times this last fall and getting it all set up the way I wanted,I love it. My girl isnt quite as thrilled with it because of the fact that you sit way closer to the water and with a vented tramp that means way wetter.The boat is not as easy to move around on shore as my 16, i could drag that around very easily ,the 18 is a challenge to move around without beach wheels when your only crew is about 110lbs. Getting used to the daggerboards and the main sail catch and the different jib sheet track setup was easy but different.As far as tunability the 18 is awsome,there are some really good publications out there by Phil Berman and others on hotrodding the h18.I am very happy with my decision to go with an 18,only draw back is getting 5 or more together to race,otherwise unless you are racing portsmouth rules its not uncommon to show up at a regatta and be the only 18 there. Hope this helps, shawn 82 H18 #8211 Div3 |
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| Author: | HobieNewBee [ Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:28 pm ] |
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I cant wait to go get the boat now. Thanks for the replies |
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| Author: | Skipshot [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:37 pm ] |
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I've got a 16 and an 18, and my preference is to sail the 18. For the 18: It's a smoother more stable ride than the 16, and where in a puff the 16 tends to want to fly a hull first the 18 wants to accelerate first then fly a hull. Tacking an 18 is easier because of the daggerboards, but good technique on a 16 minimizes the difference. The 18 won't pitchpole as easily as a 16. The furling jib is great for de-powering during landings and storage while beached. Wings can be fitted and they rock for added comfort (backrest) and higher and drier when sitting on them in a blow. Without wings sitting on the hulls is more comfortable than the rail of the 16, but the hulls can be slippery. Against the 18: The racing class is declining. Rigging is a little more involved and takes a bit longer than a 16 (I still haven't figured out how to raise the jib correctly the first time). The diamond wires on the mast just get in the way when stepping it by hand. Don't hit anything with the daggerboards down, they are expensive to replace and damage to the trunks is difficult to repair. Daggerboards catch weeds and must be lifted to remove the weeds (this was a PITA at Clear Lake, CA). For the 16: No daggerboards if you sail in shallow or weed-infested waters. Rigging is easier and the time is less. It's lighter than an 18 so it's easier to move around than an 18. Parts galore! Easier to right solo. A 16 wants to fly a hull more than an 18, and the 16 prefers to stay there. Against the 16: It feels less stable on the curved hulls than an 18 which has straighter hulls. It's responsiveness to the tiller can make it twitchier than the 18. Those dang jib battens hanging up on the halyards. All in all, the objections are very minor and I love both boats, but I like sailing the 18 a little more than the 16, but I like rigging the 16 more than the 18. |
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| Author: | JSWoerner [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | My Take |
Here' s my 2 cents and that's all it's worth. Maybe 3 cents, it got really long. I have sailed but not owned 14s (recently) and 16s (about 10 years ago) and currently own an 18(magnum). I am 49 years old, 6'2," and weigh anywhere between 195 and 230 (currently 205). 14: The 14 is a sunfish on steroids. one person can toss it around on the beach, sail it, rig it, and right it easily. That is really the way it should be sailed. It can carry 3 adults (barely) but will not point or tack with any more aboard. If you can get the jib/turbo rig it would be really worth it. They haven't made it for years so don't look for fleets to race with. Also parts while available can be hit and miss. 16: 16's are ubiquitous. I've seen them car-topped. If you want to class race this is the boat for you. It's really a two man boat but one person can rig,sail, and right it, and drag it around fairly easily. You can get a spin as well as other upgrades so unless you're slumming from 12 meters it can be as challenging as you want to make it. The tramp sits up on pylons so you stay a lot dryer. It's also still in production which is nice. The 16 is kind of the sweet spot of the Hobie line. I wouldn't sail it with more than 4 adults. 18: The 18 is an enigma. It can be had in a myriad of shapes and configurations. The bad: They are all an order of magnitude more difficult to deal with on so many levels. A lot of states start to register/title boats at +16 ft. I'm a big guy and dragging a 400+ pound boat around by myself is trying at best. Stepping a 30 ft mast is "interesting". The daggers are a real issue in shallow water. Diamond tension, spreader rake, mast rake, pre-bend, etc all add to the challenge. Righting is MUCH more difficult and I'd recommend some mechanical help, even with 2. If you want to solo it you had better be on your game. It's f18 legal but probably too heavy/old to be really competitive. In short the 18 is a big, FAST, technical boat. It's also been out of production for years and you'll probably own the only one in 5 counties. The good: Having said that, with the magnum wings on it''s almost a party boat. (SXs are bigger). I've had 5 adults, a big dog and a huge cooler out with plenty of room and had no problems pointing or tacking in light or heavy weather(could maybe have brought 1 more). The daggers really help upwind and tacking. I'm still learning and even without tweaking all that stuff I knock around the bay, through the sound and up the river with the family friends and dog without worrying about getting the last ounce of performance out of my rig. It has all those tweaks that "real" sailboats have. As I learn all that stuff the boat will grow with me and I will become a better sailer as I work towards my run at the America's Cup (or more likely a retirement cruising the carribean). AND I can add taller masts, square head sales, battened jibs, and spins as well as bigger downhauls and main blocks. In short the 18 is a big, FAST, technical boat. AND it's f18 legal if I (or my son) want to race it so having the only one in 5 counties isn't that important if I don't mind losing. I've only soloed it a little but it's a rush and once I acquire a hiking stick and a righting bag I intend to push my limits. It is MUCH bigger, more stable, and seaworthy than the 16. Someone once sailed an 18 ACROSS THE ATLANTIC!!! I feel much more confident sailing it out through the passes and the surf into the gulf and to the outer keys. I am planning some overnight cruising/camping trips with my son that wouldn't be possible on a 16. Summary: I'm enjoying my 18. With my(wife's) goal of a cruising retirement, my enjoyment of a technical/physical challenge, and enjoying sailing with friends/family it's a good choice for our family. Under pretty much any other circumstance I'd have bought a 16. John |
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| Author: | hobie18rich [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:23 pm ] |
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just to chime in first the h-18 is not f-18 legal (the crossbars must be straight) the h-18 are curved. I truelt loved my h-18 but have moved up to the tiger. The 18 is a powerfull responsive boat but has built in saving graces. if you hit a puff you have more time to save it and down wind reaching if you stuff the bows you can submarine it and dump sheet and save the boat. But the racing fleets have ben sparce and some parts can be hard to get. For fun sailing i think its the best thing on the water for racing its your choice. The 16 is the classic racer best fleets and more competition. If you like the technical side get a tiger. but do what ever makes you happy and get that hobie on the water. support your local fleet. |
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| Author: | Karl Brogger [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:47 pm ] |
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Aren't boards on a H18 are centerboards, not daggerboards? Or am I way off base? |
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| Author: | Skipshot [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:05 pm ] |
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Karl Brogger wrote: Or am I way off base?
Yeah. As I understand it, centerboards are not removable like daggerboards, but instead rotate up. The Hobie 17 has centerboards. |
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| Author: | Karl Brogger [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:20 pm ] |
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Right after I posted on this thread, I posted a question on Catsailor to see what the difference really is. http://www.catsailor.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=138296&an=0&page=0#Post138296 |
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| Author: | MUST5429 [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The Hobie 18 and the Hobie 20 have Daggerboards that must be lifted thru the hull. The hobie 17 and the Hobie 21 have Centerboards that rotate up into the hull. |
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| Author: | JSWoerner [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Did not know about the crossbars |
Did not know about the crossbars. I think most fleets would find a place for you unless it's some sort of sanctioned event or they think you're so slow you might be a hazard. |
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| Author: | HobieNewBee [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:02 am ] |
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Ok i bought the boat. $350!!! The sails look in great shape. I didnt roll them all the way out. No real soft spots except for the very back on the left ponton between the rear cross bar and the ruders on the deck. I pushed down there and it made a cracking noise. Is that bad? Do i just need to inject the resin to fix it? Ill pick it up later im waiting on paperwork and then i will post some pics. Stay tuned more to come. |
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| Author: | JSWoerner [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Congrats! |
Congrats! I paid a lot more. What year is yours? Cracking noises can't be good. I think that area of the hull is foam sandwich. |
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