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Line types
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10597		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  JackMontana [ Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Line types
I'm a monohuller that's considering coming to the darkside for a H16 (I hear you guys have cookies?). Anyway, in my world folks spend a lot of time fussing over specific types of line (i.e., lightning braid, salsa, finish line, etc). Over here I can't even find out what types of line are usually used for running rigging on the H16, much less people debating the relative merits of different types. What have I missed? Do you folks use some special Hobie line? Is it just not important? All I seem to find are the required diameters and under "type" it says something like "halyard". Furthermore, people selling line kits online don't even specify what type of line it is.
Author:  MBounds [ Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:41 am ]
Post subject: 
There are only 5 lines on a Hobie 16:

Jib Halyard - (Aussie system only) - 3/16" single braid Dyneema. Choose your brand.
Jib Sheets - 1/4" or 5/16" - whatever feels good to your crew. Bzzz, Salsa, Swiftcord, whatever. Doesn't make that much difference.
Downhaul / Jib traveller controls - 3/16" whatever. They're not under a lot of stress, so something that runs through the blocks OK.
Mainsheet - 5/16" - whatever feels good. You can't beat the original "fuzzy" Samson Trophy Braid for feel, but it gets really wet and soggy. I like NE Ropes Salsa - once it's broken in. There's a trade-off between light weight / non-water absorbing and the line's ability to stay put on the trampoline while you're on the trapeze.

The main halyard is made by Hobie, so there's no choice there and the outhaul does next to nothing, so it doesn't matter.

You will find that the Hobie 16 is a boat that will test your ability to sail by the seat of your pants ("Feel the Force, Luke!") without a lot of line tweaking. You'll either get it right, or be left scratching your head wondering what went wrong.

Other the sheets and travellers, the most important adjustment on the 16 is the jib halyard, since it sets your mast rake, jib slot and leech tension (both main and jib). Getting is right is critical and it's extremely sensitive.
Author:  srm [ Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:47 am ]
Post subject: 
I think on many of the classic cats, like the H16 and 18 for example, line types are not heavily discussed because it's not a huge deal. If you get into some of the more modern and complex cats (F18, A-class, Tornado...) I'm sure there is more of an emphasis on specific lines.

For one thing, a H16 really doens't have that many lines- mainsheet, jib sheet, downhaul, trap lines and jib halyard are pretty much it. The jib halyard you would definitely want to be a strong low stretch line. The main and jib sheets, you would want to be easy on your hands, flow through the blocks well and be fairly light. The downhaul and trap lines just have to be strong enough for the load and flow smoothly. Otherwise, there's not a whole lot to it.

There was an article in the Hotline a while back discussing various line types for Hobies. You might check out the online archive.

sm
Author:  sunvista [ Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
MBounds wrote:
Mainsheet - 5/16" - whatever feels good.
My boat came with something larger diameter, probably 3/8 which feels nice and beefy in my hands but still doesn't seem to drag or anything. My buddy sails with 5/16 mainsheet but I noticed that only one jaw of the cleat opens with line this small (right or left depending from which direction he pulls). Shouldn't the mainsheet diameter be large enough to open both jaws and clamp symetrically?
Author:  Karl Brogger [ Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
If it holds it, does it matter? 5/16" flies through the blocks.
Author:  abbman [ Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Matt,

What line stays on the boat the best? I could care less how it feels at this point. I bet I lost my mainsheet off the back of the boat 30 times within an hour trapped out in 16-18 mph winds last weekend. It was more than frustrating. It's hard to focus on sailing when your line won't stay on the boat. I've tried all kinds of things too, like wrapping the loose end of the mainsheet on my leg and holding the traveler side with my foot, but eventually I see it getting dragged being the boat. Not to mention your almost totally screwed at that point if you need to dump the main.
Author:  Karl Brogger [ Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Have your crew deal with the excess line.
Author:  localizer [ Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Karl Brogger wrote:
Have your crew deal with the excess line.


Karl, you know it is not that simple - most of the time you are the skipper, the crew, the tug boat, the loading/unloading crew, repair technician, etc., etc. :)
Author:  MBounds [ Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
abbman wrote:
Matt,

What line stays on the boat the best? I could care less how it feels at this point. I bet I lost my mainsheet off the back of the boat 30 times within an hour trapped out in 16-18 mph winds last weekend. It was more than frustrating. It's hard to focus on sailing when your line won't stay on the boat. I've tried all kinds of things too, like wrapping the loose end of the mainsheet on my leg and holding the traveler side with my foot, but eventually I see it getting dragged being the boat. Not to mention your almost totally screwed at that point if you need to dump the main.


Sampson Trophy Braid gets really heavy when it's wet and it stays put pretty good. I still prefer a lighter sheet and just control it more.

There are a couple of things I do - first of all, I make sure that the excess sheet is in a pile on the high side of the boat. Once I'm sheeted in all the way, I rarely make sheet / traveller adjustments, unless it's really puffy, so that tends to keep the pile there. (If you're dumping a lot, then pulling back in a lot, travel off a couple of inches.)

I also use a pretty short mainsheet - it's only 37 feet long.

If the line is determined to go out the back, I'll gather the loose part up (main cleated, using your forward hand) and put the loops over my trapeze connection. When you come in off the wire and unhook, the pile just drops to the trampoline. Sailing the 14 and the 17, you get pretty good at this, but sometimes it gets ugly:
Image
It looks like I'm being attacked by an exotic water snake. (That's Bzzz line, by the way.)

Some people use strips of vinyl or foam noodles in the trampoline lacing to keep the line on the boat. Some, like Karl, blame it on the crew.
Author:  Karl Brogger [ Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
MBounds wrote:
Some, like Karl, blame it on the crew.


He's got a 16. Jeez.

On the 14 I used to tie it off on the lacing, (I had way too much main sheat). I haven't found a good solution with the FXone yet. It always falls between the hull and the wing. The tramp goes under the rear beam so it has to be really rough for it to fall off out the back.
Author:  abbman [ Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Matt, your detail never ceases to amaze me. I also forgot to mention that I single-hand the 16 almost all of the time. I'm not even sure what kind of line I'm using right now. It came with the boat four years ago when I got it. I figure my main sheet is in need of replacing by now anyway.
Author:  JackMontana [ Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Thanks
for all the quick responses. I guess it'll be up to me to put whatever I want on there. I guess us monohullers spend a lot of time thinking/worrying over the silly details because we have so much time on our hands... catamarans tend to go a bit quicker!
Author:  sunvista [ Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:14 am ]
Post subject: 
MBounds wrote:

I also use a pretty short mainsheet - it's only 37 feet long.

I've often wondered why there is so much excess mainsheet on these boats anyway. The Hobie catalog shows 44' with a 6:1 block. I wonder why? I've never had the mainsail and traveler all the way out while on the wire.
Author:  KentHobie [ Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Matt's Picture
Matt,

In your photo it looks like you have your mast tied down to the Dolphin striker. In my very limited experience I have not seen this before. Can you tell me about this? Is this something for the 14 &/or the 17's only? Thanks for all of your great posts, I have learned much from this forum.

Kent

BTW I have an 84 H 16.
Author:  J_Eaton [ Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Matt's Picture
KentHobie wrote:
Matt,

In your photo it looks like you have your mast tied down to the Dolphin striker. In my very limited experience I have not seen this before. Can you tell me about this? Is this something for the 14 &/or the 17's only? Thanks for all of your great posts, I have learned much from this forum.

Kent

BTW I have an 84 H 16.
They do that to insure the mast doesn't pop out of the base during a capsize, in which more often than not, results in turtling on the 14. 17's rotate on a ball and don't have near the potential. I've seen a 16 mast pop out once as a result of too little jib halyard tension.
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