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Tips for getting on and off the wire as captain?
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Author:  JaimeZXv.2 [ Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Tips for getting on and off the wire as captain?
Hey guys, just looking for some tips here!

I was out today in some nice wind (12-15) and I attempted to get on the wire twice as captain, but it seems like you have a lot to do; you have to control the tiller and mainsheet while positioning your harness on the wire... I think I need three hands!

Fell in on both attempts; yelled at my crew "unsheet the main and turn up!!"

So... what should I do?

Thanks in advance!

Warm regards,

Jim
Author:  JaimeZXv.2 [ Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Note: I think part of the problem was that I had the old-style "long" trapeze wires, so when I did successfully get out on the wire I'd be dragging in the water.

To remedy this, I went to Lowe's this morning and bought a swaging tool and a few other things and then after careful analysis of other peoples' boats (or pictures thereof) I cut about 15" off each trap wire and re-swaged on the thimbles.

BEFORE
Image
Note how with the rings attached to the thimbles on the trap wire, you'd be trying to hook on right at the rail level.

AFTER
Image
(I'm holding a part of the wire rope that I cut off.)
The hook-on point is now about 12-14" off the rail which ought to make getting on and off much easier! :D


Hopefully this setup will last me a while now! :D


Meanwhile, I also got a flag to run up the mast when I'm not sailing:

Image

Cheers!
Author:  yoh [ Tue Sep 07, 2004 9:19 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi Jim...

I am not aware of any old vs. new long vs. short trap wires... ther are old and new style shrouds and the new style shrouds are shorter than the old stuff - but trap wires???
Part of your length issue is maybe your keyhole setup. Looks like the part that replaces the dog bone (or H handle) might be a bit longer than the dog bone.
Some of the older harnesses (bucket seats) allow for quiet some pull away from your body - creating additional "lenth". The newer harnesses will stay closer to your body and make stuff more controlable.
Practice... 50% of the time I sail single handed - My first attempts on the wire, handeling main sheet and a two meter long tiller extension did not turn out well. I moved the rope lock so that I would stand higher on the rail and so I would not take a dive when I would move my bud over the edge. Over the last months I gradually lowerd the rope lock. A good starting point for me was to place the eye of the dog bone about an inch above the siderail.
Author:  Theskier [ Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
There is a difference in trap wires from old to new... the old ones were longer, but I dont know right off hand what the difference in length is. Good job on shortening your own wires there... hopefully it will save you more money in the long run.

Mark Colby
Jackson, MI
1973 H16
Author:  widerisbetter [ Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Jim- here is a regular thesis on trapping out hope it helps
Jim check the “Deluxe Adjustable Trapeze Rig” (catalog #1203). http://static.hobiecat.com/2010_archive/support/pdfs/12_15.pdf

I would bury the dogbones or use them for a nice key-ring. They present a too small target for hook up, especially under pressure. Worse yet, they get swinging around and hurt like the dickens when they bean you. :x If you don’t do anything else, replace with J&H handles (part 2004). The primary advantage of the handles is the big hook-up target – you can connect by feel while your attention is on other things - sailing the boat for example :roll: They also give you a handle that is lower on the wire allowing you to leverage your weight when you just want to lean out for a moment- handy in puffs.

The best trap arrangement uses the Deluxe rig and J& H handle. This gives you flexibility in adjustment and no swinging parts. Here's the order of assembly- (refer to the catalog photo to get a clear idea the parts I refer to here)
1) Attach Fiddle/Jam block to thimble at end of trap wire with clevis pin at top of block.
2) Attach J & H handle to smaller block hanging below fiddle/jam block.
3) Attach 5/16's shockcord to the Bottom of the handle using shockcord snap hook- Run under tramp to other side. The length of this bungee should be just snug but not stretched when handle pairs are in the lowest position. The lowest position is when the stopper balls on the adjuster are up against the jam block.

With this arrangement you don’t have anything swinging around because the J&H handle is held secure to the rail by the bungee and the little stopper-ball on the adjuster is snug up to the jam block. Neat. Sweet. Petite.

Trapping out:
1) Hook up-With the J&H in the lower “stowage” position, straddle the shock cord. (One of the reasons you don’t want the bungee too tight – delicate body parts can suffer. :shock: ) Grab the J&H by its handy center-mounted handle and slip the lower half of the loop under your harness buckle. Quickly lift the handle securely up into the buckle using the adjuster rope. You should feel the buckle lift indicating that your waist is secure to the wire. Jam the adjustment line snug at that height. This is really the reason for an adjustable height- not so much for changing while you are out on the wire- you have enough to do once your out there.
2) Getting out- Now, cleat the main out enough that you are moving but not battling the wind and trying to stay upright. Hold the sheet in your forward hand. Hold the tiller extension in your other hand. Hint: don’t grab the sheet in the palm of your hand- you are not trying to control it- it is cleated. Instead, drape the sheet over the back of your hand and under your thumb just to maintain contact with it. This leaves your hand open and free for all of these maneuvers. Grasp the upper, wire-mounted, trap handle with your sheeting hand and lean your back out. Keep your arm STRAIGHT- DO NOT LIFT yourself - feel your weight on the harness. You should pretty much have your butt over the rail by now. Here’s the biggest trick: FORGET the trapeze, trust it, let go of the upper handle, get your feet on the rail, and lean. You need to forget the trap because you should now be concentrating on the tiller extension and the main sheet- steering and sheeting in.
3) Coming in: A particularly beautiful part of this set up is that when you come in quickly, you tend to come in high so that, as you are landing back on the rail, the trap practically unhooks itself. Pretty cool and makes for an awesome roll-tacking move when you have it all together.

Anyway, this is the best system you can use in my opinion. It SHOULD come with every Hobie. If it did though, we wouldn't spend our money on little parts to benefit “The Hobie Lifestyle”- ie the lifestyle of the Alter Empire :roll: :

Peace out, and GO FOR IT!!
Author:  widerisbetter [ Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  Read administrator mmiller's post - EXCELLENTLY done
Matt must have been working on his "Thesis on Trapping Out" when I was working on my "Treatise and Theories of Trapping Out" :lol: Nicely said Matt. I was really having a hard time trying to think of all the steps involved with my system, I never even thought about the difference in using the dogbones (which I still don't like). The main difference being that the bungee holds the dogbone up in the buckle Vs the Deluxe Trap that uses the "uphaul" and jam block to do this.

I also appreciate your attention to the detail of sheeting, especially "I don't like to keep the sheet in the cleat, but will do that when the conditions are stable. Best to learn how to do it with the cleat un-done. I have been hit by puffs when in mid transition. Having the sheet uncleated and held in my hand allows me to slip the sheet out if I have to". I agree even though my preference is to keep the boat flat by coming up if necessary. No right or wrong, just different methods. Everyone will find their own way with PRACTICE :wink:

There really is a lot to think about, when you think about it.
Author:  mmiller [ Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Practice
I wrote more on this yesterday and placed it in the FAQ section:

http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=1145

Practice is key... do some on the beach.

Practice on the beach! My kid (6) played with a couple friends on a boat last summer for hours swinging on the wire and jumping along the rail... he was "on it" after that. He loves to sail... as long as the boat has a trapeze! That "play" time was really effective. He has great balance out on the wire / water now. That is a good lesson for all of us. Practice a bunch on the beach. Don't wait for that good day and waste it "practicing" on the water.
Author:  JaimeZXv.2 [ Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks guys; I tried it again today and with the trap wire re-set higher I had no problem getting out there. Did it several times, and had a blast! This is also the first time I have been out with my GF when there was more than just the occasional puff of wind and I think she's hooked! She kept saying "fly the hull again! fly the hull again!"

Now I've just got to figure out what to do with the traveler vs. mainsheet to keep as much power up as I can! :D
Author:  Athlon_Rulz [ Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:17 am ]
Post subject: 
hmm im a newb to sailing, and im comfortable wiring when im crewing, but what abt as a helm?

does it work, if my main is well sheeted in, (abt 1.5 feet between boom and blocks), and i pinch the boat a little? Then hook on, hike out. and just push with my legs?

I find it incredibly daunting to get my legs on the side of that rail, after the hook on bit....how can i make it more of an easy process?

Is it better to get out first as the skipper, sheet in more, and tell the crew to get out as well?

i havent reached the point of having kids or nething, (heck im not even in university yet), so basically any incredibly difficult moves arent a problem...

one more thing, whilst on the wire, as a skipper, how do i point the boat? while im on the tramp, its easy enuf, just point the windward hull to your point, and ull get there...but hows it on the wire?

soooo many questions!:) thanks for ur help
Author:  ijaure [ Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:53 am ]
Post subject: 
what i usually do:

crew on the trapeeze, so if wind goes down or there is too much weight in our side, while you are getting out, its him (both hands and absolutly free) who will get inside the boat.

once hooked while sitting, you must be able to forget about the hook. get in and out without touching it

tiller rear hand, sheet in the front one (this is obious but just in case :-)). Personally i prefer to sheet in WHILE going out, this way, the boat has more power to sustain both of you out and you dont need to be overpowered before going out.

THE MOVEMENT. hooked, place yourself (=ass) on the sidebar, put your rear foot on the rope used to tie up the mesh (you will use it like a step of a ladder), then push with it outside, put the front foot on the sidebar (it is very usefull to have a neoprene over the sidebar so its less slippery), push with the front one and place the rear foot on the sidebar...and VOILA!
DONT try to 'get up' while going out! just push outwards

try to look forward, better than inside the boat, your feet, hands or whatever: this will prevent the boat on changing its heading
about your pointing while in the wire... good question... I dont know... i simply know... i dont think it will be more difficult outside!
Author:  JaimeZX [ Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
You're asking how to make the boat go where you want when you're on the wire and can't "sight" along one of the hulls? That's just practice, I think. :D

Jim
Author:  Athlon_Rulz [ Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:13 am ]
Post subject: 
damn it...whyyy do things have to be hard;)

hey jamie? ur in qatar right now? hows the sailing up there?

here in oman its pretty decent...we get some decent winds once in a while, but otherwise, great seas(pretty calm) and tons of fun..

lemme get this straight....i use the main sheet in my forward arm, and hold the tiller against the side rail with my back arm...scoot me ass out the boat, get my foot onto it...then pray to god my hook stays on?

but how does one stabilize himself? if the sheet isnt cleated in wont i just over sheet? (like when i go out on the wire as crew, i sit up, on my knees, my ankles on the side rail....hook on, and just fall out....my feet land on the hulls, the jib sheet is what i use to stop myself from falling backwards....then step up onto the side rails.....
Author:  ijaure [ Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:43 am ]
Post subject: 
makes things more interesting!

>hold the tiller against the side rail with my back arm
NOP, hold the tiller extension with your back hand, no need to put it in the side rail
>then pray to god my hook stays on?
your hook will stay on as far as you dont try to 'stand up'. but even them usually your hook is directly connected to the shock cord so it will 'follow' you even if you lift yourself 10-51cm

>but how does one stabilize himself?
you hava a good grip with your back foot... and a perfect one with the hook! you put all the weight in the rear foot juste before going out. Once out, the more spread out the feet are, the more stable. of course youll never be as stable as your crew, who has the jib sheet to 'hold on' to and the wire of the mast

>if the sheet isnt cleated in wont i just over sheet? just fall out....my feet land on the hulls
DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT DOING THE SAME STUFF , i would suggest not to do it that way when you are a crew! what if you slip to the other side? capsize, if a wave brakes in before you put your feet on the sidebar? Man over board or capsize! AND if you are in a H14-16 the place for your feet is the side bar, not the hull, you can get easily wiped out by the water
try 'my' way being crew and see if its safer or not.
as you wont use the sheet to stop yourself no oversheet, but I usually sheet on while going out to get more power
Author:  zingaro [ Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:40 am ]
Post subject: 
Well im new and never read the manual but using the velcro on the tiller extension gives you a free hand (see nude photo) My wire is that i can sit on the rail and "hook up". I use the white handle on the wire w/ left handand hold the sheet and the tiller extension with the right (sheet let out enough to underpreform) Then from seated on the rail to a squat and out on the rail...... Ive found that holding the tiller extension with the pit of my arm gives me both hands to pull in the sheet ( standard hobie riggin) After a while youve got a small bit of motion with the tiller under your are shifting your body
Author:  muench1 [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Jaime, where is that photo? Corpus? Sure looks like it to me...
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