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Safely righting http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2459	Page 1 of 2

Author:	PeterB [ Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Safely righting
I was reading the FAQ posting about righting. On my 16, I have tied a Hawaiian righting system and use a bungie to tension it. The thing is, the rope I'm using is on the underside of the boat. To bring the rope over the hull and use it to lean back on means the shroud interfers with the rope. I have to untie and retie it on the outside of the shroud in order to use it. Am I missing something? For the life of me, I don't see a way to rig it so that it is under the boat between the hulls when stowed, and outside of the shroud when its time to use it.

Author:	JaimeZX [ Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:
If you go to my website there are a few pictures of the way I have it rigged. I'm not exactly sure if mine is the Hawaiian setup since I put it together myself, but I was going for that. Anyway, I have the righting line tied in the center to the dolphin striker post, and then it goes around the front pylon, around the outside of the shroud, and then to the back pylon, where the retracting bungee is attached. So when I flip, I'll reach up over the hull (being 6'1 helps) and grab the righting line and pull it out; it's fixed to the dolphin striker so the part that "feeds" is coming from the stern. Make sense?

Author:	John Eaton [ Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:
In "these parts" the Hawaiian righting system was installed in this fashion. Probably a newer/better idea out there, but this works. Let me also preface by saying the system was 1/2 or 5/8" yacht with 1/4" shock and blocks under the tramp and a 1/4" yacht "tail" on the other end of the main piece for securing at the transom. An eyestrap (or two hole strap) large enough for the righting line to easily slide through is riveted or screwed to the front of the forward pylon, midway between the top of the deck and the bottom of the front corner casting. The line is routed through the strap to the outside of the shroud and tied off to the back of the boat in whatever fashion. Let the bungee system take all the slack back under the tramp and and mark the line every two feet or so (evenly spaced) from the strap to the transom. Mark the line under the tramp, towards the bungee end about three to four feet from the strap. Untie from the transom, pull it back through the eye and put a knot in the line at your mark under the tramp. This is your stop when you pull the line down over the hull when righting. Run your end back out through the strap, put knots at your remaining marks and tie off at the transom. Remember to route on the outside of the shroud. The knots are for the crew to get a good solid grip with their back hand, while on the trap wire, to keep from falling forward.

Author:	PeterB [ Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:
Thanks, the ideas are confirming what I suspected i.e. the righting system is rigged outside the shroud wire. I had them inside for ease of rig adjustment and transport, etc. and it wasn't a part of my setup routine to reach in when I'm raking back the mast at the shrouds and pulling the righting system outside. It will be now. Thanks again for the ideas... the 3/4 inch nylon braid that I'm using works for this purpose well, and the way I had it tied was similar to JaimeZX's suggestion. Just a little adjustment in the setup to save a lot of mucking about in the water (which i've done after turtling).

Author:	About_a_buoy [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:56 am ]
Post subject:	righting a capsized 16
I have tried the hawaiian system, I have tried rigjhting ropes attached to the dolphin striker and putting crew and helm level with the mast to right my 1985 Hobie 16 but after 5 or 6 capsizes i have STILL not succeeded in righting my the cat. I took the mast off and threw it in the sea to see if it would fill with water. It doesn't, so it can't be that. Firstly, I am a pretty light helm at 55-58 kg but even with a 100kg (inexperienced) crew I could not get the thing up. I do, of course, try NOT to capsize in the first place but sometimes stuff happens. On Sunday I capsized offshore when (my latest)crew and helm were both out on the trapeze and I pointed too much into wind. Our combined weight is about 123kg. We tried righting with a rope tied around the dolphin striker and thrown over the hull infront of the stay. Crew and helm pulled in line. Nothing happened. I then went over to lift the tip of the mast while my crew attempted to right. I was able to lift the tip quite a bit - not too bad in a rolling ocean. There was a rescue boat standing by but even they struggled to help us. I am going to try some inshore capsize sessions but if I really can't get the Hobie up, what else can I do? Would taking the sails down have been a solution?

Author:	John Eaton [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:30 am ]
Post subject:
About_a_buoy, I don't know... Sounds like enough kg's. We "swim" the mast tip around so it's within 45 degrees of dead upwind (or straight upwind if not blowing hard). Make sure the main sheet is not cleated, no use trying to pull up water with the main, but since you we're able to lift the tip up this is not your problem, sounds like your weight was needed on the righting line. We've never tried to right with the main down. Once you get the mast up to slightly above horizontal (and your into the wind) the sail will catch enough air to help bring it right up. You need to hang on the line long enough to get it past this horizontal position. Quote: not too bad in a rolling ocean Having never sailed the seas, is it a timing issue? Be at least horizontal coming up the frontside of the swell? So then at the peak you'll have the wind to bring it on up?

Author:	gatoblanco [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:41 am ]
Post subject:	Safely Righting
There are several different ways of rigging a righting line (take a look at the Murray's catalog for different options). There are also several different ways of trying to right your Hobie, some of which work better than others . Since there are so many variables you could be encountering, it's hard to say what's going right and what's going wrong Try looking under one of Matt Miller's threads about righting (I think it's the same that's listed in the Hobie catalog and Hobie U materials) for a really good, time tested option. Several important things to keep in mind are to get the hulls about 45 degrees into the wind, get the righting weight out in a manner to take advantage of leverage (i.e. leaning out close together, even doubling up [bear hug style]), etc. Unfortunately, the only way to get good at it is to do it . I don't think weight is an issue for you, but you could always inlist a heavier crew to see if that's your problem (about 285 lbs. is supposed to be good, though, I've heard stories about much lighter crews righting with no problem). It certainly doesn't sound like there are any mechanical problems (good idea with the mast integrity check ), so I hope it's just a matter of practice. By all means, practice in calmer waters until you get it down, it's only safe. Good luck

Author:	Crank_It_Up [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:
I weigh about 255 lbs. and have no problem righting by myself. I always swim the tip of the mast around so it points directly into the wind, loosen the main a bit, standing slightly ahead of the middle of hull in the water, I lean back while holding the righting line. As the mast comes up out of the water I walk forward on the hull and grab the front of the crossbar and hang on as I bail in the water so it won't tip over after it comes up. The first time I tried this I was not alone, so in case I needed help I could get it. But after I discovered that I could right it easily by myself, no more fears about sailing alone.

Author:	mmiller [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Righting
We would run the righting line outside the shrouds so we could use the line a as a "cheater" when reaching. Always good for less experienced crew to help them stay stable. Especially when the conditions are rougher. They are a pain to get lead out and over the hull when needed for righting. When I would try that, I would grab it back near the rudders and then work my way forward. Running the lines inside the shrouds makes them easier and quicker to use. You just reach up and grab. Then lean. But you can't use it as a cheater. We have done some testing here that says the weight required to right is the same when lines are tossed over the hull or pulled directly from the posts. The different leads change the weight vs compression on you body. The over all effect is pretty much the same. It is actually a rotation when you are pulling on the upper line you are also pushing on the hull that you are standing on. Higher angle line means less compression on your body and most of the weight is just hanging from the line. There is minimal push (compression) on the hull you are standing on. A lower angle line (coming from the posts) has less weight hanging from the hull, more compression on your body (less comfortable maybe) and more push on the hull for the rotation motion in righting. I used to sail under minimum weight on the 16 and 18. I "was" 170 and my crew was about 98. I would have my crew on my shoulders leaning out. Not sure my back would like that these days, but I am no longer 170 either!

Author:	JaimeZX [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:
I've found I have the most success righting solo with instead of the 45/45 degree solution (wind between the bows & mast) to have it more like 80/10 where the wind is mostly on the bows and therefore flowing across the boat front-to-back; that seems to catch the most wind under the sail for help pushing it up.

Author:	About_a_buoy [ Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:	safely righting
Thanks all for your suggestions. I will be out in the harbour on Sunday for a dedicated capsize practice. I will trying turning the cat towards the wind, adjusting rope length and attaching harness hooks.

Author:	JaimeZX [ Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:
Just occurred to me I have a video of me solo-righting the boat on my website too. Look in www.JaimeZX.com/OT I think it's the only MPG file in that directory. It's not super clear but you can make out my red life jacket and black righting bag. It starts out with me filling the bag with water and then leaning out. You can see it takes several seconds for the mast to work its way up. My wife is very self-concious about her little narration in the film, so if you listen to it on mute that might make her feel better about the whole thing. For your practice, make sure you've got at least two of you on-hand. Should be no problem with two of you. The only time I ever had problems righting with 2+ people was when the top of my mast was not sealed well and it took on a lot of water making it very heavy.

Author:	About_a_buoy [ Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:06 am ]
Post subject:	the video
I enjoyed the video. I confess I listened to it with the sound on and enjoyed the squeals of joy as the mast came up . I notice your body looks like it is far out from the hulls when you are pulling up which probably gives good leverage. I wonder how I can lean far out.

Author:	JaimeZX [ Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:34 am ]
Post subject:
Well when you're on the righting line you don't just hang straight down, that wouldn't do anything; you have to lean waaaaay out; getting your body as close to parallel with the water as possible. With two people it's best to do one in front of the other with the lower person very close to the water and the upper person just in front of them but also as far out as possible. Then as the boat starts coming up you're going to get dunked and lose your righting moment, so you need to "climb" up the rope as the boat comes up so that you stay as close to parallel with the water as possible until the boat comes up the rest of the way on its own. When that happens you leap from the rope and grab (and hang from) the dolphin striker. That way if it tries to go over the OTHER way you're hanging from the dolphin striker and you will help prevent that. Don't be like my friend who screamed and dove out of the way of the boat as it came up. If you jump and grab the dolphin striker the boat will right with you in between the hulls and you're not going to get crushed. Good luck! Jim

Author:	Hobie Nick [ Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:42 am ]
Post subject:
Yeah, Jamie's right. you should be in between the hulls when it is up right. I'm kind of tall so it apears taht the upper hull is coming right at my forehead. A little freaky the first time. But, my survial instinct kicked in and I ducked in bwtween the hulls. Had I not I would have been unable to stop the boat from going over teh other way and woudl have probably been hit by the mast. Once it's upright, DON'T let go of the boat. Trust me

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