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Stirrups
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2506		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  zingaro [ Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Stirrups
Any ideas about attaching stirrups on the rail like the ones they use on windsurfers. I would think it would keep you in place better on those gusty days when the wind dies and the deceleration throws you forward?
.....z
Author:  ottos [ Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:48 am ]
Post subject: 
Murray's has them in the catalog. I don't have any experience with them.
Author:  tjp [ Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stirrups
zingaro wrote:
I would think it would keep you in place better on those gusty days when the wind dies and the deceleration throws you forward?


I've seen em in the Murray's catalog too, and I've been thinking of getting a few. Better than when the gusts/die throws you forward, I'd like them to keep my feet from being washed off the rail in high waves. Sailing in the Columbia Gorge and lower Columbia by Astoria, the waves get quite high and though you can set the trap higher to keep your body from being swept off, this doesn't help your feet, even with rail rugs or neoprene.
Author:  Hobie Nick [ Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:54 am ]
Post subject: 
They are also in the Hobie catalog. Part # 1240 on page 17. They also make moving the boat around easier.
Author:  John Eaton [ Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ditto on the high waves, about lost it, more than once, last Sunday in the four and five footers, even with shoes.

You really only need them on a reach when speed is highest and trying to keep the boat flat, so you're going to have a real good idea of what is the best place to mount them (I was always paranoid about drilling holes in my hull and then not being happy with the location, so I have never bought any).
Author:  zingaro [ Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:23 am ]
Post subject: 
Just discovered Murrays... i didnt see them in the Hobie cataloge.. I was thinkin the best place would be on the rail instead of the hull to mount them. Placement would be as far aft. actually if you could mount one just aft of the "fitting" or ON that fitting would be nice. Id be afraid of inviting cracks if you drilled in the casting.
Author:  John Eaton [ Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:18 am ]
Post subject: 
I have never been in waves big enough to reach the side rails of a 16 tramp, when close hauled (going upwind), because you're normally trying to keep that windward hull just touching the top of the water.

What I'm talking about is on a reach or broad reach, then the boat is much flatter and we're trying to keep that leeward bow tip from digging in to the back side of a wave (could result in a pitchpole). To counteract this the skipper and crews weight need to be as far aft on the winward hull as possible, which means skipper is on the hull behind the tramp and crew at the back of the tramp.

I've also seen folks set up two straps so the skippers' back foot is in the strap about eight inches from the transom with his foreward foot on the corner casting and one closer to the rear pylon for the crews' back foot and their forward foot on the hull or tramp rail.

That's the only place I would drill holes for a strap, is in the gunwale of the hull.
Author:  Hobie Nick [ Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:06 am ]
Post subject: 
My old 16 and my current 18 both had these straps located in the hulls. I pick up and move the boat around with these straps with no problems at all. Plus, you would have to drill all the way through your side bars to have access to tie off the straps.
Author:  widerisbetter [ Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:01 am ]
Post subject: 
John Eaton wrote:
.... trying to keep that leeward bow tip from digging in to the back side of a wave (could result in a pitchpole). To counteract this the skipper and crews weight need to be as far aft on the winward hull as possible, which means skipper is on the hull behind the tramp and crew at the back of the tramp.

...set up two straps so the skippers' back foot is in the strap about eight inches from the transom with his foreward foot on the corner casting and one closer to the rear pylon for the crews' back foot and their forward foot on the hull or tramp rail.

That's the only place I would drill holes for a strap, is in the gunwale of the hull.


I agree with John - that's the setup I recommend. We call them "Suicide Straps" because if/when you do pitchpole with them they hold you in place to the very apex of the roll-over where centrifugal force is greatest. When you release at that point you REALLY take off!! :shock: It is a one-way ticket around the forestay :twisted:

They also make nice "handles" for picking up the stern of the boat. The gunwale is strong enough for them. Consider that the bow-tang is drilled through the gunwale and there is a LOT more force on that than we could ever be able to exert.

Note: Make sure that you mount them so that you can slid your foot under, with your boot on, without having to look down or force yourself. The mounting instructions, as I recall, are a little vague on this issue. 8)

Go for it! Sail hard, sail safe.
Author:  zingaro [ Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
after being out today im thinkin of just a piece of webbing, mabye 2 2 1/2 inch and some rivits with wide area washers to hold in place..... Mainly for the rear foot but the flexibilatiy ( what ever that means ) would allow you to stand on top of them with less trouble than something of a rigid quality ( windsurf sturrips) ud just have to fish to get your foot in um ????
im goin for the side rail not the hulls you got better mechanical advantage from that hiking postion.
Author:  John Eaton [ Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stirrups
zingaro wrote:
I would think it would keep you in place better on those gusty days when the wind dies and the deceleration throws you forward?


z,

I'm sorry, I'll pay more attention to the original question next time, we're way off base here :?

In the case of rapid deceleration, the skipper wants to use the main sheet as an aid to prevent falling forward, the crew will use the righting line in their back hand. It is definitely more difficult for the driver to keep steady, using this method.

Personally, I wouldn't put straps on the rail and I have never seen straps on the rail. The main reason to have stirrups on the rear "deck" is the waves knocking your footing loose, but could be useful for a fall forward preventer as you have mentioned, primarily for the crew, since the angle of the righting line (used for stability) becomes so "steep". Unfortunately at that angle of sail the decel is probably due to burying the hull and I suppose if you still have your footing, and your reflexes are quick enough, you could avoid a full blown pitchpole.

Trapezing from the rail is primarily a reach to close hauled sailing angle, I can't imagine that much "rapid" deceleration occuring upwind.
Author:  Hobie Nick [ Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:16 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm wonderinghow you get more mechanical advantage by trapping from the rail opposed to the hull. I liked to trap out on the rail because it was more comfortable on my feet than the gunwhale was, but I'm not sure it gave me more righting moment.
Author:  zingaro [ Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:26 am ]
Post subject: 
yea i very seldom go for the hull but like the rail. Being solo most of the time i cant stay up long (that lack of experience) and when you come crashin down and your on the hulls you got water to deal with. I do feel however more leverage is applied from the rail. In looking at other posts im sure the wire length has gravity on the issue.
Author:  John Eaton [ Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:30 am ]
Post subject: 
z,

May I suggest, adjust your trapeze so your upper body and head are above the level of the tramp. This will prevent you from teacupping when the wind "disappears". Being solo I don't care how low you trap you still wont have enough weight to keep the boat flat, the minimum crew weight for 16 racing is 285 pounds. The boat is overpowered anyway and you and a crew would be double trapped in about 15 to 18 mph winds.

Keep sailing, remember you're overpowered, and get used to the boat. The more you sail you'll start to "see" the gusts disappearing and you'll be able compensate, instead of crashing down, then you'll be able to adjust your trap lower and look like the guys in the Hobie catalogue.

Wait on your decision to mount straps on the rail, you may regret it in the future.

Have Fun! :D
Author:  zingaro [ Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:00 am ]
Post subject: 
[quote="Hobie Nick"]I'm wonderinghow you get more mechanical advantage by trapping from the rail opposed to the hull.
Id say yes Nick, your on a constant arc from where the wire is attached on the mast..... if you measure your degrees of arc from the base of the mast your a few more when you step up on the rail . a flying term: wt x arm = moment. Now as i see it your arm (distance) has increased by a bit. Mabye like lighting a match in a nuclear explosion but kinda like peeing in the ocean: every little bit helps?
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