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Cannot attach Forestay to Bridle Tang. Please help!
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=30395		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  fishe117 [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Cannot attach Forestay to Bridle Tang. Please help!
I recently purchased for myself a new to me 79' Hobie 16 that had delamination repairs in front of the front cross bar on both the port and starboard hulls. A few weeks ago the port hull experienced sheer failure while I was preparing to launch the boat in the lake I sail in which resulted in a busted hull and bent mast. I have replaced both hulls (the port is a 74' and I am not sure what year the starboard one is) and replaced the mast as well. All a generous gift by a fellow sailor in my local area.

The problem I have is that I have assembled the boat back together with the new to me hulls and mast, and using all the standing rigging from my old boat have tried to step the mast. When we have the mast up, the thimble end to be shackled to the bridle tang is about 2 inches short, and no matter what we do, we cannot close that distance. I threw away most of the standing rigging that was with the replacement mast because it was in poor condition, but I saved one of the shrouds that came with it. This shroud is about 3" longer than the shrouds on my 79' boat. I just got done measuring the standing rigging the best I could. The old 79' shroud rigging is 18' 11 1/4" (not far off from the specs) end of thimble to end of thimble, and the forestay lower measured 17' (which I think the specs say should be 17' 6"). The shroud that came with the mast measured 19' 2 1/4" (seems to be too long). I do not have the bridles with me right now so I did not measure them.

Is my forestay really too short? The rigging worked with the other mast. Do I need to purchase all new rigging? Is it possible that the hulls are not on parallel, or that the deck is not seated correct on the hulls when I assembled them? I got all the bolts through the holes of the pylons and corner castings, and the tramp is tight. I am stumped and would appreciate some advice. Thanks!
Author:  MBounds [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cannot attach Forestay to Bridle Tang. Please help!
Use an extra 7-hole adjuster to make up the gap. Use a small piece of bungee to take up the slack.
Image
Author:  branson [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cannot attach Forestay to Bridle Tang. Please help!
I had the same problem with my new to me '76. I fixed it by moving the shouds up one notch in the 7 hole adjuster. Simple fix you may have already tried.

War Eagle!
Branson
Author:  fishe117 [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cannot attach Forestay to Bridle Tang. Please help!
Thanks for your responses. I was talking with a local sailor last night and it hit me that I should try adding the double chain plate, and so I think that will be my solution (what you have suggested Mbounds). I also think I will make sure to get a lower forestay that is 17' 6" (6" longer than my current) so I can rake the mast back further.

I already have all the equipment to do that in my cat box. Just wish I had thought of that at the lake cause the wind was great!
Author:  Jman6631 [ Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cannot attach Forestay to Bridle Tang. Please help!
I just saw a video clip shot at the Worlds in China where they went over parts of the typical rig set up. On it they showed an interesting forestay slop solution. They crimped a slug ~6-8" above the lower thimble, tied a piece of bungie right above that and then tied the other end to the single bridle chainplate. Simple and affective.

While I have the same photo above as a reference I think I'm going to give this simpler mod a try first. I do like the double chainplate method because it clearly lifts the forestay up and out of the way. I'm not sure how the World's method accomplishes that but they are undoubtedly doing it this way for a reason and maybe the forestay doesn't need that much clearance after all. If I can get the slug method to work I'll post some pics.
Author:  MBounds [ Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cannot attach Forestay to Bridle Tang. Please help!
Jman6631 wrote:
I just saw a video clip shot at the Worlds in China where they went over parts of the typical rig set up. On it they showed an interesting forestay slop solution. They crimped a slug ~6-8" above the lower thimble, tied a piece of bungie right above that and then tied the other end to the single bridle chainplate. Simple and affective.

While I have the same photo above as a reference I think I'm going to give this simpler mod a try first. I do like the double chainplate method because it clearly lifts the forestay up and out of the way. I'm not sure how the World's method accomplishes that but they are undoubtedly doing it this way for a reason and maybe the forestay doesn't need that much clearance after all. If I can get the slug method to work I'll post some pics.


If you're having a new forestay made, the extra slug on the forestay is the way to go. I had a forestay like that back in the '80s. But you can't put the slug on the wire after the eye is installed - you have to slide the slug on the wire first. Cutting the eye off to put the slug on will shorten the forestay ~2 1/2 in.

If the forestay is too short, the second chain plate is the way to go.
Author:  Jman6631 [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cannot attach Forestay to Bridle Tang. Please help!
Thanks Mbounds.

Question: How short is too short? I am still verrrry tempted to go the slug route and cut the forestay and sacrifice the 2-1/2". Is that too much to take off?

Is there no way to remove the existing thimble slug (and thimble) without cutting the line? How about some precise surgery with a grinder or a dremel just to get that slug off? If so, what are the ramifications of re-installing the thimble slug back onto its original location (or as close as possible)? Is the cable end too compromised at that point?
Author:  MBounds [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cannot attach Forestay to Bridle Tang. Please help!
When a nicropress sleeve is properly installed, the sleeve material flows into the spaces between the individual strands on the wire. They don't come off without a significant fight.

I suppose you could spend an hour on it with a Dremel tool and remove 90 % of it. It's a relatively soft alloy, though, so it will clog up a grinding stone. You'd need one of the hardened steel cutters.

You could also just make a "slug" from electrical tape - wrap a piece around the wire several times. All it has to do is prevent the bungee from sliding down the wire. It doesn't take much bungee tension to hold the forestay reasonably taut.
Author:  SebringSixSpeed [ Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cannot attach Forestay to Bridle Tang. Please help!
Isn't there something else you could just clamp onto the wire? I mean it's only holding a small piece of shock cord right? I would take a trip to a hardware store and see what kind of small cable clamps they have. Just my .02.
Author:  Jman6631 [ Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cannot attach Forestay to Bridle Tang. Please help!
Mbounds and Sebring, thank you both.

I'm essentially taking both of your points and am going to the hardware store to pick up a little cable clamp and hopefully be done with it. Shouldn't take more than that. All I'm concerned about is even the small chance of having any sharp edges of that piece of hardware coming into contact with my jib, even for a short period. That little crimped slug looked so innocent....
Author:  Jman6631 [ Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cannot attach Forestay to Bridle Tang. Please help!
UPDATE

Instead of using a cable clamp whose various edges could damage my jib or worse, I thought I'd try zip tying the shockcord to the forestay. I'll carefully cut a small notch into the cable coating that the tie can sit in, then tie off the shock cord with it. Easy peazy. Can anyone think of a reason not to?
Author:  SebringSixSpeed [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cannot attach Forestay to Bridle Tang. Please help!
Hey Jman, what do you think about getting a nicropress sleeve and using a dremmel to cut a lengthwise opening in it, spread it over the forestay and squeeze/crimp it down where you want it. No sharp edges and would probably hold better than a zip tie.
Author:  Jman6631 [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cannot attach Forestay to Bridle Tang. Please help!
That's interesting. My only challenge is crimping it. I don't want to buy a tool just for this. I've seen them, basically bolt cutters with crimpers in place of the cutting blades. Any other ideas? Would vice-grips, or even a hammer, used very carefully work? I realize it's not perfect and won't surround the slug, I only ask because it's not a critical, load-bearing mod.
Author:  MBounds [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cannot attach Forestay to Bridle Tang. Please help!
You guys are way overthinking this.

Wrap a 2" peice of electrical tape evenly around the forestay to make a "slug".

Take a 12" piece of 3/16" bungee and tie an overhand knot in the middle around the forestay above the "slug". Pull it really, really tight.

Done.

After raising the jib and tensioning the rig, tie the two ends of the bungee together at the bridle shackle. Let the forestay form a coil in front.
Author:  Jman6631 [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cannot attach Forestay to Bridle Tang. Please help!
Really? I figured electrical tape would just heat up and loosen under the pull of the shock cord and heat of the sun.

I'll make a deal with you MBounds, how 'bout I zip tie the electrical tape slug? LOL

Thanks as always....
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