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Tacking 16 in high winds . . . .
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3233		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  DavidBell47 [ Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Tacking 16 in high winds . . . .
Has anyone here ever experienced problems tacking H16 in high winds? I mean, I use all the knowhow I know. I build up speed then turn slowly to head wind while sheeting in the main then backwinding the jib. After the boat changes sides I sheet out the main until the boat picks up speed then sheet in the main to get more speed and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah, blah.. And yes, the rigging is tight as to stablize the leech of the jib. At 15mpw and under, this proceedure works fine. Over 15mph is when I start having the problems. Am I doing something wrong ??? PLease advise........ :cry:
Author:  Hobie Nick [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Do you get stuck in irons? Do you get blown back on your previous tack? What exactly happens to you?

As long as you use the procedure you described:

- Fall off to gain speed (momentum) for the tack
- Sheet in as you come about
- Move your weight forward as far as possible to move the boats pivot point closer to under the mast
- Keep the jib backwinded until the main battens pop across then bring the jib over
- Sheet out the main a few inches after the battens pop
- Finally retrim your sails for the desired course and speed.

You should be fine.

I have done this in 25 kts plus winds and it worked great. Just make sure your weight is forward or you can blow over backwards in strong gusts... trust me :oops:
Author:  Skipshot [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Take Nick's advice and practice some more. Make sure your crew is versed in the procedure, too, as doubtless we've all had crew release the jib too soon, especially crew trained on monohulls.

As for getting out of irons, I've found two tricks that help:
1. manually backwind the jib - stand up and take the jib clew in hand.
2. pull the tiller to the windward direction you want to go, and the wind pushing the boat slowly backwards will also help the bows out of the wind.

Anyone else have tips for getting out of irons? On a stalled boat, that is, not my wife or job.
Author:  DavidBell47 [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Nick/Skipshot,

What crew??? I'm sailing solo!!! I guess I forgot that part. By the way Nick, I'll try placing more weight foreward. Right now, I'm sitting right next to the shroud during a tack but the boat seems to be trimmed very well. Irons has never been a problem. As a matter of fact, irons would be a sign of progress right now in my situation. :lol: The water has also been very choppy in these situations. The boat just won't turn far enough for the jib to backwind. I think if it got that far, I'd have it made.

We've got plenty of wind out here Skipshot so I'll be able to get plenty of practice. 15+ comes up about noon every day and goes up to 20+ by 3 o'clock. Hope it stays like this during summer (although I know it wont). But for now, as long as it's not raining, I will sail. I'll give you a report after the next time I go out.

Thanks Guys,

David
Author:  Hobie Nick [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
David,

What is most likly happening is you are almost getting the bows through the wind and then have to go back on your original tack. If the water is choppy it will degrade your speed faster than normal. Sitting up by the shroud when tacking is plenty far forward (you want to be able to reach the tiller). What I think it comes down to for you (and this is from a guy who has never seen you sail, so take it as you wish) you are doing one of three things:

1) Not getting enough speed up for the tack
2) Being too aggressive with the rudder and dumping all of your speed (after 45 deg the rudder is more of a brake than a directional control device)
or 3) Not being aggresive enough with the rudder and the drag from the sails is slowing you down.

I find it easier to solo the H16 than to sail with crew you don't know well or who is more ballast than anything else (sometimes balast can be pretty and that is a plus). Having to backwind the jib is ideal for solo tacking. This makes the tack a linear series of events.

Keep in mind that cats do not tack like monos do so if you have sailed monos fora while you need to teach yourself a new skill set.

Good luck! You will eventually be able to tack on a dime.
Author:  surfrider [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes I've been stuck in irons on very windy days and doing what Nick says
helps. I thought I was the only one having this problem until I read it here.
Author:  DougHobie17 [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Hand hold jib sheet
David:

One thing I would recommend is to break loose and hand hold the jib sheet as you backwind the jib and stay up by the mast. The main problem I had in heavier air as I sailed my 16 was going over backwards because we couldn't get the jib released because it jammed in the cleat. Been a long time , but this is what I remember.

Doug Snell
Hobie 17
www.tcdyc.com
Author:  JaimeZX [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, I don't bother backwinding the jib, although it is a bit easier in heavier air. I just pop it loose when I push the helm over and once the bows are through the wind I slowly sheet in and go.
Author:  Athlon_Rulz [ Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:39 am ]
Post subject: 
Skipshot wrote:
Take Nick's advice and practice some more. Make sure your crew is versed in the procedure, too, as doubtless we've all had crew release the jib too soon, especially crew trained on monohulls.

As for getting out of irons, I've found two tricks that help:
1. manually backwind the jib - stand up and take the jib clew in hand.
2. pull the tiller to the windward direction you want to go, and the wind pushing the boat slowly backwards will also help the bows out of the wind.

Anyone else have tips for getting out of irons? On a stalled boat, that is, not my wife or job.


Being a solo sailor, I find that the same push-push technique can be used with the mainsail. Just when u sit down for the tack, more of lay down, so that ur feet can reach the boom...if you stuff up the tack, just push with ur legs, and push the tiller the other way...the boat shud reverse, and go onto the tack u intended!
Author:  John Lunn [ Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  H16 tacking
We used to stall around 70% of the time. So this thread is not an unusual subject for us. Every year, I teach the new batch of students how to do it (as noted above by others,) and every year we watch them stall, until one day, they figure out the difference between mono and multi hulls. Or they give up and bribe me with beers to show them again how to do it. One of the many reasons I love training.

Two quick pointers: we do not change sides until we are through the tack, the weight (left-right) helps align the mast/sails to better come about. For those who have sailed little boats like Lasers, think 'roll tack.'

Also, when we do stall, we don't get excited any more: we merely allow the H16 to start sailing backwards, then we reverse the rudders, fall off, and start on the new tack. Not very efficient, however we are social sailors, not racers.

This challenge is less demanding on a H18, H20 or Tiger - different geometry and different characteristics.

Good winds and good tacking.
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