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Painful Sheeting
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=32438		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Cat Fever [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Painful Sheeting
I have been sailing my Hobie 16 for 30 years now, since I was 13. I sail some summers more than others, this last summer not as much due to my family situation but next summer plan to more, hopefully. I have been having this strange pain in my hands the last couple years, mostly in my index fingers, if I had to describe it the closest thing that would come to it is an arthritis type pain. Couldn’t figure out where this was coming from, not until I went sailing this last August in a strong wind (usually all I sail in these days) after sailing the pain was more prevalent and it became clear where I was getting this hand trauma. I noticed that when I hike out I use the sheet (uncleated) to give me support. The sheet bends around the index finger at about 90 degrees and puts a lot of stress on that particular finger. I have the same pain in both hands, from sailing both tacks.

The only thing I can think of to help alleviate this problem is to cleat the sheet in whenever possible to remove the stress from the hands, though this is more difficult to do on gusty days when you are constantly sheeting in. The other thing would be to get the newer block system that is geared down lower. I believe this would take some stress off the hands as well? Is the Harken system the only preferred system to use on the 16 now days? I still have the stock block set from 1980, which you really need to pull to get the sail tight and it doesn’t cleat the best.

Are there any other solutions, such as special gloves or cleat sets for the hands or something new and improved that an aging sailor can use?

Thanks
Author:  srm [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Painful Sheeting
Upgrade your main blocks to low profile Harken 6:1 or even 7:1 purchase. Use the recommended line size - too small and it will cut into your hands, too large and it won't run through the blocks well. Use the ratchet function on the main blocks to make hand holding easier. Use the cleat, it's there for a reason. If you have the angle set right, the mainsheet will flick out of a harken cam cleat instantaneously. Keep your head out of the boat and make the majority of your sail trim adjustments through steering.

sm
Author:  Little Wing [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Painful Sheeting
I agree to an extent but the low profile block set up will sheet out slower thus more chance to go over. I am 58 and like you I love to sail in big wind I do not point race so I get into MANY more situations in relation to big wing gusts, as i am looking for them for the thrill, also I utilise the ENTIRE body of water which also gives me longer reaches and in general much more fun so....... I also do not cleat, in said big wind, as I am usually far away from other boats. And do not want to go over. My hands ache!!!!!!!!! cleat when you can, shake it out and ibuprofen works the best for me.
Author:  Cat Fever [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Painful Sheeting
Thanks, both of you for the added insight. The reason I got cleat lazy is like what was stated, plus I have to pull the sheet up high to cleat it in, when adjusted the jaws more downward on the blockset then I couldn't release the sheet easily, thus the bad habit. In addition I think lake sailing is more gusty due to the tree lined shores. I did some ocean sailing while on vacations and the wind seems much more consistant when there are no obstructions, I will try some larger bodies of water to decrease the lake shore effect to reduce gusts. I will also go to the local Cat dealer and talk about some new Harken block options for easier sheeting but not too much that I have to sheet out a mile to get the sail out.

When I was younger I could sail this way all day in high winds, I guess I just need to adapt my sailing for my aging self.

Thanks again, BGS
Author:  srm [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Painful Sheeting
A good set of low profile blocks will NOT cause you to be more likely to flip. Those old 5:1 Seaways with a thick sheet and those crappy steel cleats are way more likely to cause you problems. Theres a reason people switch to Harken low profiles - they simply work better! 6:1 or 7:1 blocks with the right diameter line will work amazingly well compared to seaways.

I agree, if you're out in gusty wind, you will naturally have to work the sheet more than in a steady breeze, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't use the cleat. With practice, you can easily flip the line out of the cleat. IMO, there is no need to hand hold the sheet all day long. Get a good set of blocks, practice uncleating until it's automatic, and sail with your head out of the boat...your hands will thank you.

sm
Author:  Roy [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Painful Sheeting
srm wrote:
sail with your head out of the boat...your hands will thank you.

sm


What the heck is that supposed to mean??? :?:
Author:  MBounds [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Painful Sheeting
Roy wrote:
srm wrote:
sail with your head out of the boat...your hands will thank you.

sm


What the heck is that supposed to mean??? :?:


Pay attention to what's going on around you instead of dealing with stuff (like balky cleats) on the boat.

You'll be a much better sailor when you can do that.
Author:  Hammond [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Painful Sheeting
Better equipment helps, good grippy gloves help, proper cleat adjustment helps. The Harken blocks are an incredible improvement. This should be done on all boats with the old seaway systems. The functional differences will amaze you. You state you are using the sheet to support yourself when hiking. Get out on the wire. It's harder to crank your wrist from the wire sheeting angle. The angle that you are holding the line, where the line is exiting your hand at 90 degrees, you are cranking your wrist while you are sitting. Your thumb should be pointing at the block when sheeted in, not pointing at the sky. You may be placing pressure on the nerve. Try relaxing your grip and use your better grippy gloves (Ronstan makes a good one) to hold the line. You are cranking your wrist to make the friction across your index finger like the ratchet function on the block. That places all the pressure on the index finger. Better gloves alone will help. If you are still getting pain, switch to an overhand grip, where the tight line exits the pinky finger side of your hand. Like any repetitive stress type injury, switching grip will help. In addition to better blocks, don't overlook the line you are using. I find some line like salsa soft on the hands but too flexible for the mainsheet (harder to uncleat as it is really flexible and too light to whip out of the cleat under load, but I am on a 20 with higher loads, some people really like Salsa), and other lines are too stiff to run through the blocks. I like the old fashion soft covered line for grip and feel (I don't recall the trade name). The smooth line last longer as it is not soft and fuzzy, and runs through the blocks better as it is smooth, but it is slick making it hard to hold. I hope this helps.
Author:  J_Eaton [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Painful Sheeting
Mike,

I agree with you on the main sheet line on the 20, but... The main difference I noticed with the Mylar, vs. Dacron, sail was that it never hurt to crank on more mainsheet, and in that case that "stiffer" line was better. Whereas, on the 16 oversheeting, especially in light winds, is S-L-O-W. I've had a Salsa line on my boat for four seasons now. I use it on the 14 too (same 6:1 block set). I use it on the 16 I race, and the 16 I use for fun. I've used the heck out of it and all it does it get fuzzy. Figured if it got too fuzzy, I'd just "turn it around". Reeve it again, the other direction, changing the place where the line and cleat meet most often, but I haven't had to do that yet! Can't say enough good things about Salsa. :D

ps I've been using the H194 lower and 40mm triple upper blocks, just like the new/er 16's, you cant improve on that combination ps
Author:  Tim H16 [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Painful Sheeting
The main traveler, jib travelers and jib sheets are all set up for flipping the lines up to uncleat while the main sheet is flipped down. Every once in awhile while I am sailing and a gust hits causing the windward hull to go up too much or the leeward bow to drop, I find myself frantically flipping up the main sheet trying to release it until I remember to look at it and correctly release it. Normally it's an automatic reaction to flip down the main sheet to release it, but if your thinking about the jib or distracted you might get it wrong.

Does anyone adjust their main sheet cams so that you have to flip the main sheet up to release it?
Author:  John Lunn [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Painful Sheeting
I'm lucky enough to be married to a Physiotherapist (what they describe as a Physical Therapist in the US), so 'over-use' injuries are a common thread of our sailing discussions.

The best thing we did was to pay some bucks, and switch to ROBBLINE for our mainsheet and jib sheet. Much, much easier on the hands. You have to have metal jawed cams, though, the plastic ones simply won't grip. Plus Robbline floats. Call your local dealer.

In my case, it's my ring finger that started to act up, so I switched how I hold the mainsheet - my wife's advice worked - do the same thing using a different method/way of holding. Try an underhand hold, or, an overhand hold, or, a straight/direct hold. And keep a water-tight container of ibuprofin, or better yet, the extract from a naturopathic herb called ARNICA. Pills, cream, whatever. The Romans used to make a tea from the Arnica bush before they went into battle, promotes healing, reduces swelling....no I don't sell the stuff, we just use it for bumps and bruises and sore fingers. Good winds
Author:  Cat Fever [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Painful Sheeting
Thanks for all the helpful information. Yes, time to lay down some loot at my local Hobie shop and see if he can show me the Harken blocks, Salsa and Robbline sheets in addition to some newer gloves. Next time I am out I will try alternating between the overhand and underhand holds for sheeting to change things up a bit, as well as keeping my wrist angle in line with the sheet (straight/direct) hold.

Not sure what sheets I have anymore, after the stock white sheets got shredded I bought new heavier/denser black sheets and they won’t wear out, even with the ratchet on. As for my old cat both the jib and main sheets uncleat by slapping them down, I still have the old jib traveler cars with the cleats on the travelers, pre 1981-82 vintage.

Thanks again,
BGS
Author:  56kz2slow [ Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Painful Sheeting
Tim H16 wrote:
Does anyone adjust their main sheet cams so that you have to flip the main sheet up to release it?


Mine is not flipped, but adjusted the angle so that I just need to pull on the sheet to uncleat, the downside is that I need to pull up to cleat. The cleat used to be horizontal, so the tramp was getting in the way for uncleating unless I whipped it real hard.
Author:  Cat Fever [ Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Painful Sheeting
That is exactly what I ran into when I adjusted my cleats down, I had to slap it down hard otherwise over I went. Now I have mine the same as you have, where I need to pull up to cleat the sheet in. When I want to release it I just pull on the sheet. Unfortunately, the needed action of pulling up to cleat the sheet is the reason I just hold the sheet instead. In MN the winds are not that consistant, at least on the lake I go to, so you are constantly sheeting in, then out, it is easier to just hold the sheet, I will have to break the habit.
Author:  rattle 'n hum [ Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Painful Sheeting
If you find yourself between angle adjustment "notches" on the lower main block, Harken makes a cam wedge kit for the 150. It's a 10 or 15 degree wedge that fits under the cam cleat base. Worked wonders for me.
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