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Shroud length and mainsheet blocks
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=33660		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  sawyerspadre [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Shroud length and mainsheet blocks
I recently bought a 1983 Hobie 16, and it is in need of new shrouds. The shrouds that came with the boat seem to be 19'3" long. I have read that the new shrouds are shorter, and that the forestay and bridles have been adjusted to allow more mast rake.

I also understand that a lot more rake requires low-profile mainsheet blocks, and that the rudders may need tweaking to rebalance the helm with the new rake.

So here is my question. If I want to order shrouds, and use my stacked-block 1983 mainsheet system, what length shrouds/forestay should I order? Do I have to change the bridle length? I would prefer not to have to spend $400 bucks or so on new blocks

I am sailing on a lake in PA mainly, not the windiest place, and often flat water, even if it is crankin'. We may take the boat in the bays in NJ, or to Delaware or North Carolina and sail in the sound. It is unlikely that this boat will spend much time in the ocean.

Am I right in thinking that today's hot shot, max-rake settings are applicable to sailing the boat pretty wound-up, in windy conditions? Is there a setup that works well, in flat water, that is a good mid-point, like 19'1" shrouds, where I could still keep my blocks, 7-hole chainplates, etc?

Thanks in advance,

Phil
Author:  richandpat [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shroud length and mainsheet blocks
Phil - If you plan on sailing for fun and not racing, then it's not necessary to rake your mast back, buy a comp tip, re-adjust your rudders, buy a new set of blocks.....
You'll have to special order a pair of shrouds and a forestay since Hobie changed the lengths a while back. Murrays Marine can help you (800-786-7245).
The wire lengths for the Hobie 16 were: Shrouds - 1/8 1x19 wire; 19' 1/4" long; 2 each. Forestay - 1/8 1x19 wire; 17' 6" long. Thimbles at both ends. Double swaged is better. My forestay is only 17'. Best to measure your old shrouds and forestay first. Forestays don't really stretch much with age, but shrouds do.
It's also a good idea to replace the Anchor Bar (part # 50101701).
If you sail on a windy day, keep your weight back, travel out, and sheet out. If it's very windy, sail with a heavy crew or don't go out.
Keep it SAFE; keep the expenses down; Have FUN!
Rich
Author:  sawyerspadre [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shroud length and mainsheet blocks
Thanks. Do you think the shrouds have actually stretched that much or was there a period where they were actually 19'3"? My forestay is already 17'6".

The "anchor bar", is that the little stainless bar that is tucked under the hull edge at the chainplate?

If anybody has a spare trap harness around that they aren't using, let me know. Mainly teen girls 110-140 lbs will use the harness. This boat is mainly for my daughter and her friends to blast around on.

Thanks,

Phil
Author:  J_Eaton [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shroud length and mainsheet blocks
Welcome Phil

sawyerspadre wrote:
Quote:
Thanks. Do you think the shrouds have actually stretched that much or was there a period where they were actually 19'3"?
they have always been 19' 3"...no stretching, just older
Quote:
My forestay is already 17'6".
It has been replaced

Quote:
The "anchor bar", is that the little stainless bar that is tucked under the hull edge at the chainplate?
that's correct

Quote:
If anybody has a spare trap harness around that they aren't using,
check the classifieds here, or post a wanted ad here, check craigslist...you'll find one
Author:  richandpat [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shroud length and mainsheet blocks
J_Eaton & Phil - The following is from the older NAHCA Hobie 16 Line Lengths and Wire Guide. The shrouds were 19' 1/4". Whenever I order new shrouds (about once every 5 years) I get 19' 1/4". Everything fits fine and sails fast. The shrouds really do stretch.
The forestay only helps to hold the mast up until you raise your jib and tighten the jib halyard. Then the forestay is useless while sailing. I doesn't stretch much, if at all, over time. I replace my forestay only when the wire strands get a little frayed or if there is some corrosion around the thimbles.
Keep the boat safe, especially for your teenage daughters and their friends.
Rich

Wire Lengths for the Hobie 16
Location Wire Type/Grade Finished Length Quantity
Main Halyard-non Comptip
C/L shackle to near side stop=15 5/8' 3/32 7x7 25' 7 3/4' 1 ea.
Jib Halyard
Rope 20'6' of 3/16 halyard 1/8 7x19 16' 5' 1 ea.
Shroud
thimbles both ends 1/8 1x19 19' 1/4' 2 ea.
Trapeze Wires
thimbles, stops and handles 3/32 1x19 16' 9 1/8' 4 ea.
Forestay Pigtail
thimbles both ends 5/32 7x19 6' 1 ea.
Lower Forestay
thimbles both ends 1/8 1x19 17' 6' 1 ea.
Bridle
thimbles both ends 1/8 1x19 3' 8 1/4' 2 ea.
Author:  ChrisD [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shroud length and mainsheet blocks
What have you all seen going wrong with the anchor bars? :o
Author:  richandpat [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shroud length and mainsheet blocks
Good question, ChrisD.
About 7 years ago I ordered a pair of shrouds for my H 16. Our Hobie dealer, Ron Lane, suggested that I also replace the anchor bars. I look at them occasionally and didn't think they needed replacement, but I ordered 2 anyway because I've known Ron for many years and I trust his judgement. When I unscrewed the anchor pin (20100000) from the ANCHOR BAR (50101701) one of the anchor bars disintegrated. The other was still okay, so I kept it as a spare part. I was surprised! It was an accident waiting to happen.
I inspect everything often, but I still replace shrouds about every 5 years and anchor bars, forestay, and bridles about once every 10 years. Pay close attention to the wire and thimbles that run through your jib also.
It's not a bad idea to have a Hobie dealer that you know and trust or a more experienced Fleet member do a safety check on your boat occasionally.
Keep the sport safe and have fun!
Rich
Author:  sawyerspadre [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shroud length and mainsheet blocks
Is it aluminum or stainless? Seems like it should Be stainless to avoid dissimilar metals issues with the anchor pin for the shrouds.
Author:  ChrisD [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shroud length and mainsheet blocks
The two parts are stainless. Unless it was a bad seed I would not expect to have to replace it as long as it was left open to the air and not sealed over. Amazing things do happen to be sure. Put a bit of Neverseize on the threads as a precaution against galling. Many many in my area have been used solely in salt water for 30 plus years without a problem. Does sound as though electrolisis was at work where RichandPat's part is concerned. Stainless steel used in a marine environment must be allowed to breathe otherwise corrosion will occur. A layer of oxide (corrosion) must form on its surface for stainless steel to remain so.
Author:  richandpat [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shroud length and mainsheet blocks
We do most of our sailing in salt water. Perhaps that's why our H dealer suggested I replace the anchor bar after about 20 years. Other than hosing our boat off after sailing in salt water, I don't know what else I can do to prevent corrosion. Why was one corroded and the other was just fine?
I'm going to continue to replace the anchor bars about every 10 years ($19.45 each), but I suppose you could unscrew the anchor pin from the anchor bar and inspect both parts. Re-install if all is well. Could save some money, but how much is "peace of mind" worth when you singlehand, take out family, and friends? We sail in the ocean fairly often.
$19.45 each X 2 = about $40 for about 10 years ---about $4/year That's cheap insurance.
We all spend money to replace parts and keep our boats safe, but if you factor the cost over time it really is an inexpensive sport & we get so much enjoyment out of it.
Author:  Scottd [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shroud length and mainsheet blocks
I have to admit not having looked at my anchor bars either...I've always suspected that the bow tang (without a metal anchor under it) would be the weak link. Has anyone had problems with this area? Is the fiberglass well reinforced here?

I will be replacing the anchor bars - as mentioned, it's cheap insurance.
Author:  richandpat [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shroud length and mainsheet blocks
Scottd - Our H 16 is 31 years old. About 20 years ago I suspected that the fiberglass under the bow tang was okay, but I could make it better with very little work. It turned out to be a simple and fun little project.
I disassembled the bow tangs and cleaned up the fiberglass underneath with sandpaper and a file. Then I mixed epoxy resin with some fiberglass that I had cut up into fine pieces. Then I applied it and filled in the hole a little bit. After it dried and set-up, I drilled the hole so that the bolt would just barely go through it. Reassembled and tightened the nut and bolt - but not too tight.
This little project was probably unnecessary, but I'm glad I did it. It's stronger and I didn't really add any more weight to our boat.
When you're out sailing by yourself, with family, or with friends, you want to enjoy your day and not have to be concerned about any weaknesses with your boat.
Keep our sport safe and have fun!
Rich
Author:  Scottd [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shroud length and mainsheet blocks
Rich & Pat -

Thanks, sounds like a good idea.
Author:  sawyerspadre [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shroud length and mainsheet blocks
So the short answer to my original question is that if I order 19'3/4" shrouds from Murray's, I should be good to go with my original mainsheet blocks?

Thanks for everyone's help
Author:  richandpat [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shroud length and mainsheet blocks
Phil - 19'3/4" shrouds??? Probably. Because of the forestay and shroud stay adjusters, the lengths of the shrouds and forestay don't have to be precise - just close enough. Your old, stretched out shrouds are already 19'3". See where they are pinned on the stay adjusters. If they are pinned low, can you still pin them about 2ΒΌ" higher?
A lot also depends on the length of your forestay, where it's pinned (mine is on the top hole), and where is your mast raked??? Up or back a little.
I don't mean to be evasive or make this sound complicated, but getting advice on these forums is really your third best option. Your best option is to have someone knowledgable (Hobie Dealer or experienced Fleet member?) right there by your side. Second best is to talk to someone knowledgable. Murray's Marine (800-786-7245) or a local Hobie Dealer should be able to help you over the phone better than we can writing back and forth.
My wife & I went sailing today and I noticed how much easier it was to attach the forestay when I stepped the mast then it was several years ago when the shrouds were new. They do stretch over time if used regularly. The same with the cables on the shifters and brakes on our bikes.
Let us know if we can be of further help. We've been sailing our H 16 for 31 years and still learn a lot from this forum and from other Hobie sailers we meet at the launch ramp. Learning and trying new things is part of the fun of this sport.
Good luck, Phil.
Rich
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