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| Hobie 16 capsize drill http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=36803 |
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| Author: | paul taylor [ Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Hobie 16 capsize drill |
Went out recently to check that myself and crew knew our capsize routine. I pulled the cat over on to its side in (almost) zero wind conditions. Using all of the known methods, we could not raise the sail from the water (we had a masthead float), and failed to right the cat. Crew combined weight 22 stones, (129kg) Question; Can the Hobie 16 be raised with crew weight alone and no wind assistance? Thanks....Paul |
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| Author: | ChrisD [ Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hobie 16 capsize drill |
Nearly 300 pounds is quite enough. I have never flipped a boat in windless conditions so honestly cannot say if a deadweight pull will work though I cannot imagine it would not. In even a light breeze if just one crewmember hangs on the righting line and pulls on the hand of a crewman in the water, the boat comes right up no problem. Make sure you swim your bows around so they are roughly pointed toward the wind. Easiest to do by pulling yourself to the masthead by the jib luff and swimming the mast around taking advantage of its leverage. Getting back to 'known methods'..are these the set of methods known to mankind or to you personally? Perhaps an as yet unknown method is the key. |
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| Author: | annacat [ Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hobie 16 capsize drill |
I can't right my boat w/ my 90 lb son helping. He is too short to do more than compound the problem. Was your other crew member short? |
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| Author: | Karl Brogger [ Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hobie 16 capsize drill |
There's no harder condition to right a boat in than windless and waveless. Righting is a lot like trapezing in the sense you need to be as low as possible to make the absolute best of your weight. If I'm sailing light and can't pull my boat up on my own I wrap the righting line around my trap hook, then have my crew lay against me. It's awkward, uncomfortable, and tough on the hands, but its what it takes sometimes. Also bouncing seems to help break the mast clear of the water. Your mast float is making things harder as well. Alan, and srm should work out the math as to how much more weight is needed to pull that float up. |
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| Author: | mdgann [ Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hobie 16 capsize drill |
On a calm day, my 18 year old son was swinging on the trap and tipped the boat over. I was able to right it by myself without much trouble. I am 5'8" and 200 lbs. Since there was not much wind I didn't even bother to swim the bows around. With wind it is really a cinch and you don't have to swim the bows around as you can walk forward on the bottom hull and the bow becomes a pivot point and the wind against the tramp blows the stern back. You can get it to at least 45 degrees this way, which is perfect for righting. Bouncing is very effective to get the sail to break loose. I have never had a float, but it seems to make things a little more difficult. I seal my mast and have never had it turn turtle. Even in 40 plus mile and hour winds. Keep practicing. get physical with this boat. don't be afraid that you will hurt it. These things are incredibly tough. Good luck. |
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| Author: | paul taylor [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hobie 16 capsize drill |
Many thanks to all those who replied to my question....there are some useful tips which I will put into practice. I am principally a windsurfer and am trying to apply the knowledge to cat sailing....the location here is an estuary.... go to Google earth North Wales UK...postcode LL39 Mawddach Estuary. I'm slightly bothered about the wind against tide condition with a 5 knot tide against any wind speed....the typical windsurf scenario leads to the capsized sail being 'flooded' over by the tide, pushing it down, often against the sand when in shallow water. Getting out of this with lightweight windsurf kit is no problem.....what happens with the Hobie? Paul |
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| Author: | MVD [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hobie 16 capsize drill |
When trying to right your boat, be sure that the main and jib sheets and the main traveler are uncleated. Otherwise the sails will be full of water and be too heavy for your combined body weight to right. |
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| Author: | aschaffter [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hobie 16 capsize drill |
Since my name was mentioned, I'll throw in a few suggestions. In addition to what others have said, you can also invest in a righting bag to increase they weight. It sometimes helps if after you swing the bows into the wind, you attempt to flap the sail to create an air pocket under it. In addition to overcoming the weight of the boat, mast, and sails, righting requires that you overcome a considerable amount of surface tension that holds the sails down to the water. It helps if you eliminate that. Another thing you can try is to rock the boat by leaning hard on the righting line, letting up on it, then leaning again. That can help break the surface tension and start the boat coming over. |
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| Author: | Jman6631 [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hobie 16 capsize drill |
One other thing I've heard but never tried is to haul the jib out all the way on the water side and cleat it, the theory being that it will essentially backfill and help initiate the righting process. I know this contradicts the conventional wisdom but it does make at least some sense. Karl and mdgann: Please explain why the mast float works against you when righting, other than just its weight. Thanks in advance! |
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| Author: | Karl Brogger [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hobie 16 capsize drill |
Aaaaaah....... Because it weighs more? And your giving it a ton of leverage by putting it on the end of a 26' stick? |
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| Author: | Jman6631 [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hobie 16 capsize drill |
Thanks Karl. Obviously there's additional weight  , but I have one and I can't imagine its weight at 2 and 2/3 pounds (1.25 kg) is enough to make that much of a difference while lifting the ~35# mast, having added only an additional 7%. Seems like a marginal increase to the lifting effort to me.
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| Author: | Karl Brogger [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hobie 16 capsize drill |
Put 2-1/2 pounds in your hand. It's not much right? Put it on the end of a broom, not a huge deal still. Now put it on a 26' stick and tell my how heavy it feels. Will somebody please do the math. I haven't had or used anything physics since high school. I bet that float feels like 20lbs by the time you get it out there. Also, how much does a H16 mast weigh. My mast is 37 lbs rigged, and it feels way lighter than any H16 stick I've ever thrown up. |
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| Author: | Johnnymoto [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hobie 16 capsize drill |
The one and only time we have been in the water, we tried two times ( I weight 175lbs, my g.f. 130lbs ) with no success with the Cat facing the wind but the sails uncleated. Then I noticed the Gib was just sticking to the water like an inmense decal, so I cleated the Gib on the lower side ( the side on the water ), when we started raising the mast, the Gib quickly filled up with wind and became a wing on a high angle of attack, and the Cat came right up like magic !!! Wind made a HUGE difference, I have the feeling we will need a water bag if there is no wind. ( By the way we have a medium size Bob, and it works wonderfull, the mast never went one inch under water ). |
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| Author: | Jman6631 [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hobie 16 capsize drill |
Thanks Karl, I don't have to do your drill to know the 7% increase is clearly not keeping those that use them from righting successfully. Johnnymoto wrote: ...so I cleated the Gib on the lower side ( the side on the water ), when we started raising the mast, the Gib quickly filled up with wind and became a wing on a high angle of attack, and the Cat came right up like magic !!! Wind made a HUGE difference Thanks for the verification on this technique Johnnymoto!! |
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| Author: | Karl Brogger [ Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hobie 16 capsize drill |
I didn't say it was preventing, its just not helping. |
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