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Absolutely don't want to go out on it again.
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=38293		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  iclickjohn [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Absolutely don't want to go out on it again.
This might be long, sorry.
I am experienced sailor, novice Hobie sailor. Took it out this afternoon with my son and his girlfriend on Lake Huron. This is one of Michigans "Great Lakes" 60 miles across. Absolutely no other boat traffic in our area. (we are out by ourselves even on holiday weekends) Wind was what I felt a a little more than light but not big wind, between 7 and 10 mph. We have a point of land to launch off of. We sailed 50 ft, adjusted the direction for optimum speed and wham. In less than a split second the hull my son and I were on lifted. I let the main out and it kept coming up and the nose cought and there was no where to go but over. After a two hour ordeal, we all decided that we NEVER wanted to get back on the Hobie.
1. The lower hull was sunk about 2 feet under water while it was on it's side. Is that normal?
2. In that light of wind, is wiping out normal?
3. We had a combined weight of over 350 lbs. and couldn't get it righted. OK, we were anxious and as much as I KNEW the rules of turning the mast to the wind we tried the other way. But it seemed like we were so close to land we could just swim it over. You have to understand the fear of an offshore wind here. It's 60 miles of open water and no boat traffic for miles. That is a scary thought and it overwhelmed me. I originally just wanted to get the boat back as soon as possible. Is this the wrong lake for a novice? The only other time we had it out, the wind was nill. We moved at a rate of 5 cottages per hour.
4. after cuts and scrapes and bruises, we really DON'T want to go over again. So much so that my son doesn't even want to go out on it ever again. I also, at 56 years old, am not too keen on it blowing over so easy. Really, the wind was not that strong.
I understand that we were wrong in the righting procedure. But that doesn't change the fact that it turned out to be a miserable experience for everyone. There are many other things I can do to get my jollies. I can accept the fact that a Hobie would be a blast, and then enjoy the daylights out of a convertible, or a bike, or a boat with a motor or any other SAFE ride.
There isn't much that I can think of that will make me want to get back on and ride something that will dump me over so easy in such light wind.
5. Could water have gotten in one hull that fast and cause the hull to ride low? I did not notice that, but it seemed like there was no resistance on the leeward side. Or could the weight of my son's girlfriend on the leeward side be enough to tip the boat all the way over (130 lbs)?
6. Can ANYONE convince me that I am full of $#!% and try again?
Author:  Tallguy1 [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Absolutely don't want to go out on it again.
It seems like you had a bad day, don't let this keep you from going out cat sailing again.

You probably could use a little guidance from someone else in your area who's familiar with H16s. They are not difficult boats to sail and become proficient at, but there are lots of tips and techniques that will save you time, energy and frustration.

Search online for a Hobie fleet around you, people are always willing to help someone new to cats get their feet wet, safely.

Good luck!
Author:  MBounds [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Absolutely don't want to go out on it again.
Where were you sailing from?

It was chilly today (mid-50s) and the wind over most of western Lake Huron was a gusty 15+ kts plus in the wake of the front that went through last night. While the wind may have been light-ish close to shore, it would have been very gusty. Not to mention that the water temperature just offshore is under 40 degrees.

Not a good day for a daysail.

iclickjohn wrote:
1. The lower hull was sunk about 2 feet under water while it was on it's side. Is that normal?
No. Even with 3 people standing on it. Did you have water in the hull?

iclickjohn wrote:
2. In that light of wind, is wiping out normal?
No, but then again, I don't think it was that light. I sounds like you got caught by a "black gust" coming from a gusty offshore wind.

iclickjohn wrote:
3. We had a combined weight of over 350 lbs. and couldn't get it righted. OK, we were anxious and as much as I KNEW the rules of turning the mast to the wind we tried the other way. But it seemed like we were so close to land we could just swim it over.
You cannot "swim" a capsized Hobie 16 anywhere. But you know that now.

iclickjohn wrote:
You have to understand the fear of an offshore wind here. It's 60 miles of open water and no boat traffic for miles. That is a scary thought and it overwhelmed me. I originally just wanted to get the boat back as soon as possible. Is this the wrong lake for a novice?
Yes. The Great Lakes can be very unforgiving. Rule #1 in a situation like this is "Don't panic". Losing your cool can very well cost you your life.

iclickjohn wrote:
4. after cuts and scrapes and bruises, we really DON'T want to go over again. So much so that my son doesn't even want to go out on it ever again. I also, at 56 years old, am not too keen on it blowing over so easy. Really, the wind was not that strong.
I understand that we were wrong in the righting procedure. But that doesn't change the fact that it turned out to be a miserable experience for everyone. There are many other things I can do to get my jollies. I can accept the fact that a Hobie would be a blast, and then enjoy the daylights out of a convertible, or a bike, or a boat with a motor or any other SAFE ride.
There isn't much that I can think of that will make me want to get back on and ride something that will dump me over so easy in such light wind.
I don't know what your point is here - the situation was one of your own making. Hobie 16s have been enjoyed by literally millions of people in over 40 years. A key component of safe operation - of any sailboat - is knowing your limits and knowing when it's just not a good idea to go sailing.

iclickjohn wrote:
5. Could water have gotten in one hull that fast and cause the hull to ride low? I did not notice that, but it seemed like there was no resistance on the leeward side.
Yes. Did you leave the drain plug out?

iclickjohn wrote:
Or could the weight of my son's girlfriend on the leeward side be enough to tip the boat all the way over (130 lbs)?
Generally, no, but having her on the low side when caught by a gust didn't help matters.

iclickjohn wrote:
6. Can ANYONE convince me that I am full of $#!% and try again?
That's going to be up to you. I suggest you learn how to handle the boat on a smaller body of water or in a more protected area. Make sure everything on the boat works properly and that you can right it with about 300 lbs on it.
Author:  iclickjohn [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Absolutely don't want to go out on it again.
It wasnt today (monday) it was yesterday, prior and much earlier than the front you speak of. Yes I had the plug in:-)
The wind was fairly consistent not gusty.
If upon lifting and I am learning, do I want to shove the stick turning the Hobie into the wind slowing it and dropping the hull?
Ive searched these forums and found 1 reference to water proofing the hulls. I think I want to go around both hulls with epoxy just to have the benifit of the doubt water isnt getting in. Winter is coming and maybe next spring I will feel like venturing out. But once again dangerous due to the cold water and hypothermia.
Author:  JazzOne [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Absolutely don't want to go out on it again.
I'm going out for the first time on my new-to-me H16 tomorrow. This story has me worried now. lol

Luckily, it's in the 100s here, and taking a spill in the lake wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
Author:  HiFiRobbie [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Absolutely don't want to go out on it again.
Stick with it.

It sounds like there may be a decent amount of water getting in somewhere, but you'll sort it out soon enough. Leak tests etc., you'll sort it out.

The second time I went out in mine, I was certain I'd gotten in over my head and was never gonna enjoy sailing it.

I clearly remember sailing back to the beach with my girlfriend in a bit of a swell, heading downwind and trying not to let the nose dive under and thinking "This sucks. I'm hardly moving and I'm struggling to keep from going over. This thing is for sale as soon as it's back on the trailer!". A few months later, I am completely in love with it! Now, I'm flying hulls solo and doing all kinds of crazy stuff I never thought I'd have the guts to do.

Keep at it. Sort out your leaks, do some homework with regard to positioning yourself and your crew in different conditions and you love it, too!
Author:  Johneltin [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Absolutely don't want to go out on it again.
The first time I got on my older sister's bike I fell off and went back to my hoop and stick - fell off a few more times before I LEARNED - and that's the key; you have to LEARN how it works!

What is 350 pounds in 'the rest of the world language'? Maybe 2.5 pounds to the kilo = 140kgs - twice my weight - for sailing solo in all kinds of weather including gusty offshore winds and believe me I had to LEARN - and all by myself too!

I suggest you remember to MOVE FAST ON THE TRAMP and do it gain and again before you give it away!

Stick with it - you were just unlucky (and probably slow to move).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1G9FpnTIOI
Author:  56kz2slow [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Absolutely don't want to go out on it again.
Johneltin wrote:
What is 350 pounds in 'the rest of the world language'? Maybe 2.5 pounds to the kilo = 140kgs - twice my weight - for sailing solo in all kinds of weather including gusty offshore winds and believe me I had to LEARN - and all by myself too!

1 Kg = 2.2 lbs, so 350 lbs = 160 Kg
Author:  srm [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Absolutely don't want to go out on it again.
Hobie's are not beginner boats and Lake Huron is not a beginner lake. If you're not confident in your vessel or your skills and you're putting yourself in a potentially life threatening situation, then you shouldn't go out.

If you want to stick with sailing, find a more forgiving body of water to learn on. The Great Lakes might as well be considered oceans when it comes to small sailboats (or large for that matter). Sailing a Hobie alone on a big body of water with an offshore wind is not smart regardless of skill level. The boats flip, parts break, and things can turn ugly quick. Think ahead and know your limitations. Think about what you'll do if something goes wrong and be prepared (clothing, VHF, cellphone, flight plan, etc.).

As stated above, these boats can and have been enjoyed safely by millions for decades. But they're not keelboats, jet skis, or powerboats, they're beach cats. It takes time to develop the skills to handle these boats proficiently, and they are not for everyone.

sm
Author:  smallfri [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Absolutely don't want to go out on it again.
I have to say, it does sound like you had more than the advertised wind. I've been out a few times in 10-20mph and didn't have much trouble, and I'm new to the H16 as well. I do have some monohull experience and maybe that is why.

I learned with monohulls, you have to know your limits and the conditions. And, not just forecast conditions, cause those fools are never right.

I probably avoided having a similar experience yesterday. I live less than a mile from the ocean and I was dying to get the boat out. I went to check the conditions at 8 am and then every 45 min or so until noon. The wind was gusting to 20mph+ and was forecast to get up to 25mph+. I figured I could handle that under main alone (this was supposed to be a family sailing day with my kids, 6, 9, 10 and 12 yrs old). I checked the marine advisory and the current seas were 3ft and going to grow to 6ft + AND there was a rip current advisory for our beach. There was also a heavy surf because the wind was parallel to the coast.

I finally decided to put her on a small lake near the house, more of a rentention pond really. We had about 5 hours of fun and the kids got to see what sailing was all about, while completely safe.

Sailing is all about making decisions right or wrong, and being prepared to deal with whatever arises. I always say I'm tired of learning, because every time I put ANY boat in the water, I feel like I learn something.

I'd get some books, read read read and get back on. You'll be surprised at how much fun you'll have.
Author:  pilot1 [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Absolutely don't want to go out on it again.
Sounds like you had "one-of-those-days" I think you had several problems that led to your issues. I always carry (me 250, wife 110, daughter 55, son 110 pounds and believe it or not a sheppard dog 40 that loves to ride on the forward hulls) You have to pay attention as to keeping the boat level, and a leeward wind dep on the position of the boat will dump you pretty fast, SO I am sure you experienced that. You stated that the hulls had no water in them!!!Also, If you have 3 people standing on the hulls (after it tips over) The hull WILL sink as the weight of the people on the hull obviously will push it down in the water ( you having 3 people weighing 350+ will be a cause as to why the hull was sinking. From what I have read, you had to much weight on the hull, and that would make it difficult to right or even turn the boat into the wind. I feel also that you need to check your mast, and make sure it doesnt take on water, as a mast full of water is almost impossible to right without help from another motorboat. I would seal your mast, or even put a float on the mast top (I always strap a life jacket to the top of my mast ANYTIME I go out on really heavy wind days)

Check you mast for leaks, and the next time you go over and your hulls is sinking, get some weight off the hull (make some people swim) and then try to right the boat.

ALSO, Please dont let this jade your Hobie sailing experience,,,, It just sounds like you had a bad day. FYI I can right my hobie by myself at ANY given time, because I have the right equipment on board. ie: righting lines, and righting poles (if I need them)
Author:  hrtsailor [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Absolutely don't want to go out on it again.
I suggest that you find an experienced Hobie sailor in your area who would go out with you and help you learn to sail your boat. It isn't exactly a beginner's boat but it isn't that hard to handle. There should be someone on this forum close to where you sail. Once you get the confidence, you will really enjoy the boat.
Author:  Little Wing [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Absolutely don't want to go out on it again.
Well maybe the Hobie 16 aint for you, what year is the boat, and how much do you want for it?
Author:  fastcat [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Absolutely don't want to go out on it again.
Sell the Hobie, get a Snark or Sunfish - stay safe and slow. OR study up a little, Hobie U is a good start http://www.hobieclass.com/default.asp?Page=1686 and/or go out with an experenced cat sailor. Learn how to self-rescue (right the boat without help from others). You should be able to right a cat within 10 minutes. Make sure your mast does not leak and that your hulls don't leak much (less than a quart/day). The 16 is best sailed by 2 and weight distribution is very important. I'm 57, a self taught cat sailor, starting on the H16 for 20 years, then a H17Sport for the last 8 years. I mostly solo and have capsized many times. There was only one instance I could not self-rescue while soloing. It was in the Columbia Gorge with 5-6 ft swells and 25 knot winds (I couldn't stay ballanced on the leeward hull long enough to un-turtle the boat). Fortunately a windsurfer came along and with her added weight we had the boat righted in < 5 minutes. :wink:
Author:  JazzOne [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Absolutely don't want to go out on it again.
Little Wing wrote:
Well maybe the Hobie 16 aint for you, what year is the boat, and how much do you want for it?

lol
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