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Righting Device
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40529		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  annacat [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Righting Device
I once noticed a novel righting device being used on an Atlantic crossing custom cat. It was a swing out / square frame that hinged at the front crossbar. The frame had cables forming an "X" in the center & was secured via shock cord below the tramp. During capsize, one sailor could swing the frame open like a door.. & gain enough leverage to right the boat from the water.

I have a variety of reasons for wanting a backup righting system. Does this sound feasible on an H16?? Has anyone ever tried anything similar?
Author:  hobie1616 [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Righting Device
Seems like a lot of extra junk not to mention the weight. I've never had a problem righting a 16 with the Hawaiian system. If you want more leverage get a Power Pole system from catsailor.com.
Author:  midweeker [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Righting Device
hobie1616 wrote:
Seems like a lot of extra junk not to mention the weight. I've never had a problem righting a 16 with the Hawaiian system. If you want more leverage get a Power Pole system from catsailor.com.



are power poles an effective righting system on an H16? My 135 lb kid is soloing the H16 in the bay so I too am shopping righting systems
Author:  srm [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Righting Device
Keep in mind that a righting pole is only effective when your boat is on it's side. If your boat turns turtle, a pole will be of no help. I'd go for the righting bag. They're simple and compact and they work when the boat is turtle.

At 135 lbs and sailing solo, I think your kid is probably going to be screwed if he goes over regardless. Minimum recommended weight to right a 16 (consistently) is 285 lbs. Your kid should either find a crew or switch to a 14, Wave, or a Laser.

sm
Author:  richandpat [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Righting Device
Fortunately, there are several righting aids for us light weight solo sailors.
The one that I've used successfully for the past few years is the "Cat Righting Big Bag System" with block and tackle from http://www.murrays.com
It's simple to use and light weight, and it stores under the tramp. No tools or installation is required.
You use it just like a regular righting line. Attach it to the dolphin stryker and throw the line and bag over the hull that's out of the water.
Author:  annacat [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Righting Device
Ok, I'm gonna have to tell it.

To begin, Annacat is my H16 & named after my daughter. I am a not the average sized cat sailor. I'm 265lbs & 6'1". I also sail solo during cold weather. So imagine a 265 lb dad with the added weight of a full body wet suit & vest. Now try to imagine that fat boy standing on the side of a capsized hull w/o crushing it. Realty: I tied my vest to the mast tip to prevent turtle & drifted the boat to shore. I was too much weight for the hull to support in a single footprint. I was crushing it.

No device that requires me standing on the hull is going to help this problem. If I can't right the boat, I can't sail it in heavy weather (my favorite time to sail). I have to resolve this problem without dieting as my sumo weight is my edge during in storm sailing!

If I get a power pole, can I install it without having to stand on the hull?

I've even considered opening up my hulls & glassing in some bulkheads for reinforcement. I don't care about regulation racing specs & just want to sail fast in stormy weather.
Author:  richandpat [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Righting Device
Annacat - At 265 lbs. I think you should be able to right your capsized H16 using just a simple righting line. Just use the recommended righting technique that's described in either the Hobie or Murrays Parts and Accessories Catalog. I use a righting bucket when sailing solo, but use the simple righting line when sailing with my 118 lb. wife, or friends weighing as much as 220 lbs. Both righting aids are mounted side by side under the tramp. Hobie sells a smaller and less expensive righting bucket (#30107) without the block and tackle system if you need a little extra weight.
These boats are tough. Most of us step the mast while it's sitting on 4 rollers on the trailer. I weigh 160 lbs. My H16 was built in 1979.
Author:  Tim H16 [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Righting Device
richandpat, I also step my mast while my 16 is on it's trailer. But, based on the cross-section of a hull, the bottom has no foam and the fiberglass is a lot thicker there than on the sides. Unfortunately, when you are uprighting the boat you are putting all your weight (and that of an uprighting bag) on the foam sandwich sides until you start to lean out and move your feet to the bottom edge.

Image

Annacat, I also mainly sail solo (6'3" & 210 dry), so I have a Hobie Bob on top of my mast. After a pitchpole or capsize in heavy wind and waves, I don't want my boat to turtle, since that would drive the top of the mast into the sandy bottom and cause more problems. The Hobie Bob (along with a sealed mast) also buys you more time to upright your boat along with keeping more of your mast and mainsail out of the water so it is easier to get wind under them while uprighting. I have always been able to upright my boat myself without a pole or bag, my method is to swim the hulls around so they point into the wind and when I lean way back, keep my body straight and just above the water (almost like hiking out).
Author:  midweeker [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Righting Device
Tim H16 wrote:
I have always been able to upright my boat myself without a pole or bag, my method is to swim the hulls around so they point into the wind and when I lean way back, keep my body straight and just above the water (almost like hiking out).



I have found that if the boat is on it's side and I stand toward the rear of the boat, it will pivot itself into the wind.
Author:  ASDASC [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Righting Device
If you are really concerned about standing on the hulls, I would rig a righting line. About 6' from the top of the hull put two knots that will trap the top of a pole, and wedge the bottom of the pole under the lip of the lower hull. Now you should have a length of rope hanging into the water from the top of the pole. It seems that if you just start climbing up that rope, the boat would flip upright.

I have been thinking about this for a while, and will try it next summer when the water warms up.

Another way to visualize it is by looking at the pictures of a righting bag in use, only the person in the picture is replaced by a pole, and the bag is replaced by you climbing the rope.
Author:  rattle 'n hum [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Righting Device
srm wrote:
At 135 lbs and sailing solo, I think your kid is probably going to be screwed if he goes over regardless........Your kid should either find a crew or switch to a 14, Wave, or a Laser. sm


Agreed. At 135 the power pole isn't going to help. If you look closely, it is not marketed as a solo righting tool, even for us larger folks. Don't know about a Wave or Laser, but, in my experience, 135 isn't enough to consistently right a 14 either.

Back to the OP....ASDASC's idea might work if the pole is kept from swinging fore/aft somehow and if you can actually climb the rope (doubt I could!) Otherwise, just sail on, man, and get another used H-16 (annacattoo?) when that one blows up!
Author:  ASDASC [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Righting Device
Excellent point about the fore and aft stability. Adding a triangated base would solve that. A little more complex, but still pretty simple.

As for climbing the rope, you have the water boyancy helping initially, and then you just hang there once you are up, so it SHOULD be like only doing one pullup. I THINK I can still do that...more testing is needed, for sure.
Author:  ASDASC [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Righting Device
By the way, Annacat, I would think that crushing a hull while it is floating is impossible. There is nothing to crush it against. I think it would just sink, which is kind of the goal, to shove the lower hull under water and over, while pulling the upper hull down and over in the other direction.

If the hulls are that weak, you may have other issues with them? Perhaps just moving your feet up to the to lip where the top of the hull joins the sides of the hull would give it more support.
Author:  richandpat [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Righting Device
Annacat - ASDACS is correct! You're not going to crush your hull while it's floating in the water.
The righting bag I use while sailing solo has a maximum capacity of 250 lbs. I use the block and tackle system, but only fill the bag up to about 200 lbs. or a little more. I weigh 160 lbs., so that's at least 360 lbs. total.
I've righted my 1979 H16 with a 220 lb. friend and a simple righting line. That's 380 lbs. pulling on one righting line, standing in one small area of the hull that's in the water.
These boats are very tough while in the water.
I still think you should be able to easily right your boat by yourself using good technique and a righting line or with a small righting bag (Hobie #30107).
Author:  Tim H16 [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Righting Device
I agree that you won't crush your hulls if you stand on their sides, but if you do it often enough, you may cause some delamination eventually (particularly on older boats that have gone through several decades of stress). Since my hulls are almost 30 years old, I don't like taking the risk, so I don't let any one step on top of my hulls and am very careful when I have to stand on them after a capsize or pitchpole.
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