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Max wind for a beginning cat sailor?
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=56415		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  domromer [ Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Max wind for a beginning cat sailor?
I've got a new to me 1975 hobie 16. On my second sail the winds were around 12mph with gusts to 20mph. We ended up getting dismasted after a twisted toggle broke and the starboard shroud came loose. I've since replaced all the hardware and I'm ready to head back out. I'm not new to sailing, my other boat is a capri 14, but I am new to hobies. This weekend the wind is going to be winds at 17mph. With gusts to 25mph. I want to go out, but I'm wondering if those winds might be a bit much for a new cat sailor. I've got no traps as I'm replacing the trap wires and I still don't have a harness. I'd probably be solo. I was told sailing without the jib creates terrible weather helm and isn't worth it. My sail does have a single set of reef points..your thoughts?

ImageDemasted off Dunedin Causeway - Sat. 10/31/15 by Dom, on Flickr

ImageOur broken chain plate which caused our demasting off Dunedin Causeway on Saturday Oct. 31st, 2015 by Dom, on Flickr

ImageBroken rudder on our Hobie 16 - Sat. 10/31/15 by Dom, on Flickr

ImageA demasted Hobie 16 .... Dunedin Causeway Sat. 10/31/15 by Dom, on Flickr

ImageDominic & Matt sailing our new Hobie 16 off Dunedin Causeway - Wednesday 10.28.15 by Dom, on Flickr
Author:  DavidBell47 [ Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max wind for a beginning cat sailor?
Well, the boat itself can handle a lot of wind. If it's in good condition, the worse that can happen is a capsize. Normally, I would recommend that you work your way up to the stronger winds but since you've had previous sailing experience, I'd say "just go with your gut !!!" One thing to know is that the H16 tacks a lot differently (it's more difficult) than a Capri, especially in strong winds ( a lot easier to get stuck in irons) !!! You might be able to find some demo footage on YouTube !!! :D
Author:  richandpat [ Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max wind for a beginning cat sailor?
Well....You didn't say that you capsized. You just de-masted after your toggle broke on your starboard side. You used the word "we" - like you had another person on your boat. Sailing in winds of 17mph with gusts of 25mph, sailing solo on your "new" 1975 Hobie 16; new to sailing Hobies- new cat sailor, no traps......It doesn't sound like a good idea! Are you able to right your boat if it should capsize? One problem that we sometime have while capsizing in high winds is NOT that we're unable to right the boat, but keeping it from going over to the other side. In other words, keeping it righted. Well, like David said "just go with your gut!!!" I word it differently. Stay in your comfort zone!!! If you decide to sail in high winds this weekend then PLEASE reef your main & wear a life jacket. Let us hear from you! Did you go out sailing? Did you make it back safely? Use good judgement and Good Luck to you.
Author:  cartapex [ Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max wind for a beginning cat sailor?
That's great wind...it's spotty around here. Best to you with your Banana or is it Flamer sails?
Author:  tpdavis473 [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max wind for a beginning cat sailor?
domromer wrote:
This weekend the wind is going to be winds at 17mph. With gusts to 25mph. I want to go out, but I'm wondering if those winds might be a bit much for a new cat sailor. I've got no traps as I'm replacing the trap wires and I still don't have a harness. I'd probably be solo. I was told sailing without the jib creates terrible weather helm and isn't worth it. My sail does have a single set of reef points..your thoughts?


A year ago I was a new cat sailor. I took crew with me who had cat experience for the first half dozen sails--even though I am an experienced multihull single handed racer. Granted, it seems a shame to waste good wind. BTW, that boat looks to be in great shape for 40 years old. If you do decide to play alone...suggest you start reefed and see how she acts in the gusts. If your weight alone is enough to keep you with both amas wet while reefed, you might try shaking the reef out. Slow and steady with new boats is always a good idea--they all have surprises.
Author:  mmiller [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max wind for a beginning cat sailor?
As a guide... I would not recommend sailing in over 15-18 knots if an inexperienced sailor. Gusty and gusty to mid 20s is challenging for everyone. You also need to be able to trust your equipment and things can go wrong in a hurry in higher winds. 12-15 is a nice comfortable wind for a shake down sail.

I would not sail a Hobie 16 without the jib. Quite the opposite of what was suggested. The Jib holds the nose down and reduces weather helm typically. You need the jib to tack too.
Author:  yelkenli [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max wind for a beginning cat sailor?
It looks like you have reef grommets in that sail. That might be the answer - 17 to 25 might make it an uncomfortable sail. I don't recall ever using the reefing system on a H16. My only question would be the increased force on the mast due to the halyard being secured at the base cleat and not the mast head tongs (assuming the halyard does not have a swaged ball at a reef point. Does it?)
Author:  tpdavis473 [ Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max wind for a beginning cat sailor?
yelkenli wrote:
It looks like you have reef grommets in that sail. That might be the answer - 17 to 25 might make it an uncomfortable sail. I don't recall ever using the reefing system on a H16. My only question would be the increased force on the mast due to the halyard being secured at the base cleat and not the mast head tongs (assuming the halyard does not have a swaged ball at a reef point. Does it?)


It's easy enough to add a short line extension to the halyard and cleat normally if he does have the tongs...being a 1975 boat, though, I suspect he has all aluminum and no tongs.
Author:  mmiller [ Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Max wind for a beginning cat sailor?
Early boats with reef points have a wire halyard with two hoist swages. One full hoist and one for reefing.

Key to reefing is to secure the tack and clew to the boom. The middle grommets should carry no loads. They simply help hold the excess sail to the boom.
Author:  tpdavis473 [ Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Max wind for a beginning cat sailor?
Personally, I prefer to hook the tack grommet with the Cunningham. Of course, that assumes the boom is fixed to the mast so it doesn't fall out. I also use a 2:1 on the clew grommet when I have a boom available for a turning block at the end--that way you can pull aft AND down to get both foot and leach tension. On my Getaway (no boom), I just hook the mainsheet into the new clew strap (I put straps and not grommets) and roll the excess sail around a batten and secure with lines that I carry around for that purpose. It is amazing how little performance you lose with a good reef in big wind.
Author:  DavidBell47 [ Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max wind for a beginning cat sailor?
yelkenli wrote:
It looks like you have reef grommets in that sail. That might be the answer - 17 to 25 might make it an uncomfortable sail. I don't recall ever using the reefing system on a H16. My only question would be the increased force on the mast due to the halyard being secured at the base cleat and not the mast head tongs (assuming the halyard does not have a swaged ball at a reef point. Does it?)



I wouldn't be caught dead reefing a main !!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Author:  richandpat [ Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Max wind for a beginning cat sailor?
Around 1980, my wife & I went to the beach at Crown Point in Mission Bay to listen to Skip Hurwitz & Hobie Alter describe the Hobie 16 and how to sail it. It was a free gathering that Skip had arranged. We had recently bought our boat and had heard about this through our Fleet. Afterwards, someone asked Hobie Alter a question about Reefing The Main while sailing in high winds. He said something about it being "the sweetest sail you'll ever experience." He was absolutely right!!! I've only done it twice on my boat, after a storm in very high winds; once with 3 other experienced adults, and another time sailing solo in winds that were not quite as high. The Hobie 16 sailed like a torpedo! It's very fast and it doesn't pop up in a gust. It floats up gently! The first time I tried it I couldn't see where I was going because there was so much water coming at us. The two guys that were trapped out had to tell me which way to go. The only time I could see anything was when we tacked. We could only stay out there for about 20 minutes because we were soaked and because of the wind/chill factor. When I got back home I had to replace several of the large rivets on my corner castings because they had worked their way loose since the boat was vibrating at such high speeds. I've sailed in high winds after a storm on other people's Hobie 16, but they didn't reef their main and we had to be more cautious and sail more slowly. If you're able to reef your main and you have the opportunity to sail in high winds with 3 other adults that know what they're doing and can react quickly, I highly recommend it! Hobie Alter was right!!!
Any time you sail in high winds, you need to talk things over with your skipper or crew. You have to agree upon a plan since things can happen so quickly out there. Have fun, but stay in your "comfort zone" and be safe!
Author:  ASDASC [ Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Max wind for a beginning cat sailor?
I had little to no sailing experience when I bought my H16 used. I took it out myself the first few times in very little wind, maybe 5-7mph? I had a blast. It gave me time to think between the periods of chaos. All I did was focus on going out in a direction, then back to about where I started. Then I chose another point on the far shore and tried heading to that and back. It was a wonderful day figuring things out in the warm sun. I still have reservations about going out alone in higher winds, but when I have someone with me, I love going fast and thru 'just hold on' winds!

Like others have posted, find your comfort zone and stay within it. Stay safe.

Then bring it down to Islamorada in January and race the heck out of it!
Author:  DavidBell47 [ Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max wind for a beginning cat sailor?
ASDASC wrote:
I had little to no sailing experience when I bought my H16 used. I took it out myself the first few times in very little wind, maybe 5-7mph? I had a blast. It gave me time to think between the periods of chaos. All I did was focus on going out in a direction, then back to about where I started. Then I chose another point on the far shore and tried heading to that and back. It was a wonderful day figuring things out in the warm sun. I still have reservations about going out alone in higher winds, but when I have someone with me, I love going fast and thru 'just hold on' winds!

Like others have posted, find your comfort zone and stay within it. Stay safe.


My experiences have been very much like yours. A buddy of mine (an experienced sailor) took me out once and from then on, 95% of my experiences were solo. At first it would take me 3 hours just to rig my boat. I learned to sail in the ocean and would go out just a little further each time, tack, and then sail back to shore until one day, I sailed so far out that I couldn't see land. I think that was the closest I've ever felt to God. Those that have ever sailed the ocean know that when you look back at the shoreline, it all looks the same. Even in 25+ MPH winds and unbelievable swells, I've found sail trim to be the key. I'd found that I was able to dump as much wind as I needed to without considering the reefing of my sail. I'd discovered all this by accident. However, I'm not stupid. I always had a GPS and a VHF with me, just in case I had to call the Calvary. Like you said. Stay safe !!! :wink:
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