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Seaway conversion to 6:1 and harken 150 cam cleat - w/photos http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=63734 |
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Author: | A1cnc [ Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:22 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Seaway conversion to 6:1 and harken 150 cam cleat - w/ph |
Great write up! I like the new side-plates. I was thinking along the same lines of making new side-plates. I am a machinist and have a vmc but waterjets are so much better for thin ss on something like this. Would you have any interest in selling the side plates? |
Author: | SlowSL [ Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:56 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Seaway conversion to 6:1 and harken 150 cam cleat - w/ph |
A1cnc wrote: Great write up! I like the new side-plates. I was thinking along the same lines of making new side-plates. I am a machinist and have a vmc but waterjets are so much better for thin ss on something like this. Would you have any interest in selling the side plates? Thanks! Nice, I would love to have a VMC, we just have a manual mill. There are so many projects where a CNC mill/lathe would be handy. We have a couple Flow waterjets. They are beasts, thickest material we've cut was 9.25" thick hardened tool steel, and 12" thick 6061 aluminum, and it could easily cut thicker. It burns through thin material pretty quickly, still though, a laser would eat a waterjet alive on the really thin materials. I might be willing to sell some. The problem is that the Harken jaws sit up on a "platform", the OEM cleat does not. I designed the bracket with that in mind, so if the stock cleat were to be used, the rope would be at an awkward angle going through the cleat, and may not work. I could either make a 2nd design to match the OEM profile, or just use a spacer under the OEM cleat to make up the height difference. I wonder how many people would use this type of bracket? On a side note, I modified my castings to make the rudders adjustable, also going to try them out in the next couple days. If they work well, I will make a tutorial for doing that. |
Author: | A1cnc [ Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Seaway conversion to 6:1 and harken 150 cam cleat - w/ph |
Why did you go with the Harken cleat? I haven't sailed my 16 too many times but It seems fine for me. I would be interested in the side plates if you do decide to sell some. Maybe do a poll on here and maybe beachcats to see how many would be interested. I was looking for a way to make my rudders adjustable too. I will be interested to see how yours work out. I have been too busy with work to do any mods to my 16 yet. Whenever I have had free time I have gone sailing. Yep, Vmc, 2 cnc lathes fun stuff. It's what I make my living with. I used to have 3 vmc's and the 2 cnc lathes all in a 20x 24 garage. Was a bit cramped but I made it work. I sold 2 of them because they were getting problematic and before they completely died I got some $$ for them. |
Author: | SlowSL [ Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:35 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Seaway conversion to 6:1 and harken 150 cam cleat - w/ph |
A1cnc wrote: Why did you go with the Harken cleat? I haven't sailed my 16 too many times but It seems fine for me. I would be interested in the side plates if you do decide to sell some. Maybe do a poll on here and maybe beachcats to see how many would be interested. I was looking for a way to make my rudders adjustable too. I will be interested to see how yours work out. I have been too busy with work to do any mods to my 16 yet. Whenever I have had free time I have gone sailing. Yep, Vmc, 2 cnc lathes fun stuff. It's what I make my living with. I used to have 3 vmc's and the 2 cnc lathes all in a 20x 24 garage. Was a bit cramped but I made it work. I sold 2 of them because they were getting problematic and before they completely died I got some $$ for them. I had read that the Harken doesn't chew up the line as quickly as the Seaway, and also can be cleated easily just by downward force without sheeting in at the same time. I just purchased new 8mm salsa line, so figured why not. I will say just sitting here playing with the harken, it certainly is very smooth and easy. I will see what I can do with the brackets when I have some free time. I'm thinking leave the brackets the way they are, and just cut a spacer plate for use with the OEM cleat, so they can be used with either cleat. I re-assembled my rudders & castings last night and tested. Using a 5/16" bolt as the cam locking pin, it takes a good amount of grunt to tighten hard enough where the pin stays put, and not slide back, which also requires thicker washers (1/8") so they do not deform from the load, but seems to be good. When locked down, there is about 1/8" of slop between the rudder and the set screw. I watched a video on how the adjustable rudders, and the guy used a screwdriver to put some positive pressure on the plate while tightening. I can probably eliminate the slop if I did it that way. For me though, this should be fine. Hell, there was a good 1/2" of movement or more before this modification. My rudders also had toe out of about 3/16". I was going to cut out 1/2" lengths of the tiller bar on each end, slide in an intermediate tube, align the rudders properly, then secure the tubes back together with tech screws to get the toe in that is needed, but since there is a slight bend in the arms, I just laid them down on the ground and stood on them to straighten them out slightly. I will see tonight if the toe angle changed. |
Author: | srm [ Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:12 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Seaway conversion to 6:1 and harken 150 cam cleat - w/ph |
SlowSL wrote: I had read that the Harken doesn't chew up the line as quickly as the Seaway, and also can be cleated easily just by downward force without sheeting in at the same time. The Harken cleat is 100x’s better than the Seaway for the reasons you mentioned. In addition, you will be able to push the boat much harder, knowing that you can quickly release the sheet with a simple flick of the wrist. For the money, you can’t beat it and you won’t be disappointed. sm |
Author: | SlowSL [ Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:05 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Seaway conversion to 6:1 and harken 150 cam cleat - w/ph |
srm wrote: SlowSL wrote: I had read that the Harken doesn't chew up the line as quickly as the Seaway, and also can be cleated easily just by downward force without sheeting in at the same time. The Harken cleat is 100x’s better than the Seaway for the reasons you mentioned. In addition, you will be able to push the boat much harder, knowing that you can quickly release the sheet with a simple flick of the wrist. For the money, you can’t beat it and you won’t be disappointed. sm Oh yeah, I've had trouble uncleating the Seaway a few times in a panic. Nearly ended up taking a swim. |
Author: | SlowSL [ Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:24 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Seaway conversion to 6:1 and harken 150 cam cleat - w/ph |
Minor setback over the weekend, but I have a solution. So hooked it up and went to test out the new 6:1. The cleat angle was too low, needed adjusted. When trying to rotate to a greater angle, the cleat bracket hits the ratchet bracket, which is up pretty far as it is. I could probably have moved the ratchet bracket up even farther, and and make the cleat bracket work, but the idea in the first place was to avoid having to take the blocks apart. Also, moving the ratchet to the backside doesn't work as I originally thought, the line passes through the backside of the pulley, duh. I took the ratchet out for the time being and went out sailing anyway. With gloves on, and using 8mm line, I had no fatigue after about two hours of 18mph(28mph gusts), it was pretty easy to keep tension without cleating. The sheet is able to be dumped a bit quicker in a pinch than on the 5:1 with 1/2" line. My idea is simple and should work perfect, I'm going to incorporate the thumb wheel and latch wheel holes right into the new cleat bracket. This way, it won't matter how the bracket is adjusted, the ratchet bits will rotate with it. I will update the guide once I get the bracket to work well. |
Author: | A1cnc [ Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:30 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Seaway conversion to 6:1 and harken 150 cam cleat - w/ph |
Thanks for posting how it worked. How did your adjustable rudder mod work in that wind? I am thinking of making some drop in 1/2 round spacers and adding a slot to the top of my rudder castings so they work like the Hobie adjustable castings. |
Author: | SlowSL [ Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:15 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Seaway conversion to 6:1 and harken 150 cam cleat - w/ph |
A1cnc wrote: Thanks for posting how it worked. How did your adjustable rudder mod work in that wind? I am thinking of making some drop in 1/2 round spacers and adding a slot to the top of my rudder castings so they work like the Hobie adjustable castings. They worked really well actually. I miscalculated how much material actually needed to come out of the castings, took too much out, so they ended up raked too far for the initial test. Better than not enough and having to take them off and grind some more I guess. Not a problem, just need longer set screws to dial them back a bit. I only had a cross section image of the new castings to judge by, so it was a shot in the dark how much material actually needed to come out. Currently, If I let go of the tiller, the boat has zero weather helm, which I will be correcting before my next outing so I don't have a runaway boat. Much easier on the arm not having to fight heavy weather helm. I only bought a couple different length set screws, longest one I've got threaded in only a couple threads and it's sticking out about 1/4", so another stop at the hardware store it is. The lock is pretty solid and easy, with just a little tiny bit of slop between the rudder and the set screw, plenty good though. |
Author: | A1cnc [ Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:43 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Seaway conversion to 6:1 and harken 150 cam cleat - w/ph |
I am glad that worked for you. My last outing on the 16 in crazy wind I discovered just how heavy of weather helm I have. Pretty much white knuckled it the whole time out. I actually haven't measured my toe-in either now that I think of it. My 14 turbo has adjustable rake and epo's on it. Hmm might have to make a switch as I am pretty sure I will be selling the turbo now that I have a couple outings on the 16. I am going to compare the 2 castings to see if it makes sense to modify the 16 rudder housings. I already looked quick and it seems do-able to just make a 1/2 round that would drop in and work. |
Author: | A1cnc [ Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:11 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Seaway conversion to 6:1 and harken 150 cam cleat - w/ph |
By half round I mean an insert that will basically make the shelf to support a locking plate just like the newer castings. Then I will have to mill a slot through and can adjust it just like the factory ones. |
Author: | SlowSL [ Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Seaway conversion to 6:1 and harken 150 cam cleat - w/ph |
A1cnc wrote: By half round I mean an insert that will basically make the shelf to support a locking plate just like the newer castings. Then I will have to mill a slot through and can adjust it just like the factory ones. Ah, I see now. I may switch mine over that way in the near future to see if it works any better than the way I have mine now. |
Author: | SlowSL [ Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Seaway conversion to 6:1 and harken 150 cam cleat - w/ph |
Okay, got a revised set of brackets made & bolted onto the block. The Harken 150 or the OEM cleat can be used (w/ a spacer), as well as the original ratchet mechanism. The becket roller and pin from the single seaway is installed on the top of the new bracket and used as the new tie off. This design goes on the outside so making adjustments is easy., no need to tear everything apart. Will post a pic when I have a few minutes. Should be testing it out this weekend. |
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