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Reef points on new set, yes or no?
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=65574		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  musicaldoc [ Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Reef points on new set, yes or no?
As from the title, would you ask for the reef points on a brand new standard sail or do you think they are almost useless and they lower the value of the sail on the market?
I have seen rarely using a reefed sail on a Hobie 16.
Author:  flatlander [ Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reef points on new set, yes or no?
At a regatta in the early 80's, during the Skipper's meeting it was recommended anyone racing 16's should seriously consider reefing their main.
Wind speed (with handheld anemometer) was sustained 30 and gusting. Of course, maybe three of the 60 or so 16's went out reefed (can you say Testosterone?).
Prior to the start of the first race we capsized, turtled, righted, crossed the start line (DNF) and announced to RC we were headed to the beach.
We returned in time to start the second race, under reefed main, with me on the wire and my Wife on the tramp holding the jib sheet, UNCLEATED close to her chest and easing to arms length in the gusts. Somehow, we stayed upright, in sheer survival mode, and finished third. The first and second place, non-reefed boats beat us by a mile (or two) but I lost count as to how many capsized boats we passed. At any one time there were at least a dozen boats capsized on the course and racing was called for the day after the finish of race two.

Fast forward to the mid 2000's and I was going to recreate that day with my Son, to prove how well mannered a reefed 16 is to sail in 30 knots. After setting up the boat and double checking all our fittings and harnesses we shoved off. No sooner did I sheet in, then the well used main sail ripped at the panel seam directly above the reef, from leech to luff. 20 minutes later we made it back to shore as sailing under jib only the boat wants to head up, especially in heavy air.

Long story for, IMHO if it's so windy you need to reef the main, you're better off staying on the beach :oops:
Author:  AntonLargiader [ Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reef points on new set, yes or no?
flatlander wrote:
...No sooner did I sheet in, then the well used main sail ripped at the panel seam directly above the reef, from leech to luff.


Almost exactly my own experience, just didn't rip the whole way.
Author:  musicaldoc [ Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reef points on new set, yes or no?
flatlander wrote:
Long story for, IMHO if it's so windy you need to reef the main, you're better off staying on the beach :oops:


Perfectly agree, I also think that the main problem on reefing a Hobie 16 is that you have to get the boom in the knots, an absolute no go on any reefing procedure on normal monohulls.

Anyway, asking Hobie a custom mainsail and due to the fact that reef grommets ar an option on new original Hobie sails, I was trying to decide if the Extra cost is worth.
Other people elsewhere say too that reefing a Hobie 16 is adviced over 25 knots and where I sail I seldom see breezes overr 15... if you get over 20 you get also impossible rough see...

So I am puzzled on whether paying or not the extra money for the reef grommets.
Author:  mmiller [ Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reef points on new set, yes or no?
Not an option on a factory-made sail. We have not had reefing points since the CompTip came around in 1985.

The ripping sails may have been from the 3 grommets that are simply there to tie up the loose sail... not designed to take any load at all. All the sailing load should have been on the tack and Clew grommets that are stronger and better reinforced. The three in the middle should be somewhat loose.
Author:  hrtsailor [ Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reef points on new set, yes or no?
Musicaldoc,

What do you mean about "getting the boom in the knots" on an H-16? I routinely reefed my Cape Cod catboat (monohull) the same way I reefed my H-16. Reef points were used to hold the loose sail by tying around the boom in both cases.
Author:  musicaldoc [ Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reef points on new set, yes or no?
mmiller wrote:
Not an option on a factory-made sail. We have not had reefing points since the CompTip came around in 1985.


I may post a photo of the actual Hobie 2019 brochure we have in Europe, where you see it is an option available, but I can't find the way to post it.
Anyway you may see the same option available in the US brochure on page 14.
I'm placing an order for a new 16 with custom colors mainsail.

Page 14 OPTIONS
https://cdn.hobiecat.com/digital_assets/US_Sailing_Brochure.pdf?_ga=2.71843098.821817086.1569191641-671316645.1566166865
Author:  musicaldoc [ Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reef points on new set, yes or no?
hrtsailor wrote:
Musicaldoc,

What do you mean about "getting the boom in the knots" on an H-16? I routinely reefed my Cape Cod catboat (monohull) the same way I reefed my H-16. Reef points were used to hold the loose sail by tying around the boom in both cases.


I mean that in any boat where the mainsail outhoul is not into the slot along the boom you have to pack the mainsail with the reef (square) knot without the boom in, just the sail becouse the reef grommets are not designed to hold the traction, only the clew and tack grommets must hold the traction.

If you have a mainsail with the base into the boom as the 16 you must keep the reef ropes well eased to prevent ripping.
Author:  mmiller [ Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reef points on new set, yes or no?
musicaldoc... you in Italy? Just a bit if different terminology I noted, so checked your profile. Email is from Italy?
Author:  musicaldoc [ Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reef points on new set, yes or no?
mmiller wrote:
musicaldoc... you in Italy? Just a bit if different terminology I noted, so checked your profile. Email is from Italy?


Yes... just updated profile :wink:
Author:  musicaldoc [ Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reef points on new set, yes or no?
mmiller wrote:
Not an option on a factory-made sail. We have not had reefing points since the CompTip came around in 1985.


Matt, are you meaning that a custom colors sail with reef grommets won't be produced by the factory but will be, if requested as an option available, modified by third party firm?
Author:  mmiller [ Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reef points on new set, yes or no?
In our region, it is not an option at all. As noted by PM, you need to contact a dealer in Europe.
Author:  musicaldoc [ Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reef points on new set, yes or no?
mmiller wrote:
In our region, it is not an option at all. As noted by PM, you need to contact a dealer in Europe.


Thanks for the kind answer Matt!

As far as we know here, the new 16 is now called "Global", because the components have the same origine all over the world.
The new hulls for example are all produced in France.
Author:  mmiller [ Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reef points on new set, yes or no?
Reefing is the one exception. We have a fiberglass upper mast and plastic luff track above the hounds and that dos not allow reefing. The rest of the World still has all aluminum masts and the ability to reef.

Eruo assembly manual shows the reefing grommets: https://static.hobiecat.com/digital_ass ... 201503.pdf
Author:  musicaldoc [ Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reef points on new set, yes or no?
mmiller wrote:
Reefing is the one exception. We have a fiberglass upper mast and plastic luff track above the hounds and that dos not allow reefing. The rest of the World still has all aluminum masts and the ability to reef.


Got it.... even if I know USA due to relatives living there, I didn't realize there are so many lines at mast tip hight that brought to this major change in the mast material.
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