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Mast Rake v.s. Rudder Rake . . . .
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9229		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  DavidBell47 [ Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Mast Rake v.s. Rudder Rake . . . .
Recently, I raked my mast to where the main blocks are block-to-block when sheeted in. I'm impressed with the newfound performance of the boat but the weather helm I'm getting is greater than I had anticipated. I mean, I'm a pretty strong guy but I don't want to have to pull on the stick that hard half the time I'm on the water. Can anyone tell me exactly how much "Rudder Rake" I would have to add in order to remove the additional weather helm I'm getting as a result of the additional mast rake? Thanks.
Author:  MBounds [ Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:33 am ]
Post subject: 
Do you have adjustable castings?
Author:  DavidBell47 [ Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:44 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes . . . .
Author:  MBounds [ Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well then . . .

With the boat's rear end propped up so you can work the rudders:

1) Back the Allen screw in the lower casting out until it's flush with the casting.

2) Lock the rudder down.

3) Loosen the bolt in the upper casting.

4) Hold the lower part of the rudder as far forward as it will go (with your leg), use a screwdriver to lever the casting bolt as far forward as it will go while tightening the bolt.

5) Pop the rudder up and down a couple of times to check the mechanism and any "slop" in the lockdown system.

6) Repeat until the rudder the rudder locks down with a healthy *snap* and there's little or no slop in the lockdown mechanism. (You will probably still have slop in the gudgeons / pin)

That will rake the rudder as far forward as it will go without re-drilling. Try that first.
Author:  lluistar [ Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think that first you need to check if when the rudders are down if they have any backward movement. This means that the bolt on the upper casting is not set correctly and that when you sail the rudders move backwards and cause the excessive weather helm.

So follow MBounds steps starting from the number two.

By the way on the fourth step I believe that there is a mistake.

4) Hold the lower part of the rudder as far forward as it will go (with your leg), use a screwdriver to lever the casting bolt as far forward << it should be backwards as it will go while tightening the bolt.

But I can be wrong as I don't have an upper casting here to confirm.

If after this you still have too much weather helm do the step one.
Author:  MBounds [ Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:45 am ]
Post subject: 
Let me be completely clear.

Here's a diagram of the rudder lockdown mechanism:
Image

You're trying to force the locking plate forward against the cam to take out the slop in the system. You do that by taking a screwdriver and sticking it in the upper casting slot, behind the bolt. With the tip of the screwdriver planted where the bolt enters the locking plate, pull the top of the screwdriver aft, thus levering the bolt (and plate) forward.

If you do it too hard, though, the rudder won't lock down properly. That's why you need that *snap* noise when the rudder locks down.
Author:  lluistar [ Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes, I was wrong. cam plate and adjuster screw need to be pushed forward to tighten.
Author:  mmadge [ Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
I find my new boat ( even with the adjustment screw backed off till it is flush with the casting) to still feel a little helmy.I noticed they now have a rubbery type covering over the casting.This some what restricts how far back the rudder can sit.
Author:  MBounds [ Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Pull the rubber pad out. I had to do it on mine and that took care of it.

Alternatively, you could notch your rudder slightly if you like the rubber pads.
Author:  mmadge [ Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Notching the rudder.What does that involve with these new carbon kevlar rudders?
Author:  h16bill [ Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:09 am ]
Post subject:  more rudder stuff
Pull the pad out, you can glue it back in but it's much harder to un-notch rudders. Especially those fancy ones. If you had the solid plastic ones then notching doesn't weaken them.

I will expect to see you at the EYC regatta in toronto with your new boat.

cheers
Bill
Author:  mmadge [ Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:26 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Bill,Toronto is 1000 miles from Thunder Bay.Hopefully the North Americans,only 450 miles.
Author:  DavidBell47 [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the wealth of info I've gotten from this post. Oh, and to lluistar . . . . . there's one thing we don't usually do on this site. We typically don't use or even emply "wrong" and MBound in the sentence. :oops: That's considered to be an oxymoron. :lol: I think he must've sailed all his life, and when he's not sailing, he must be reading about sailing. :lol:

I wont be able to make the adjustment to my rudders til Friday. I'll be sailing Saturday so I'll let you know how it goes.
Author:  MBounds [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Not quite true, but close.

I've been sailing/racing Hobie 16's since I was 13. I'm 48 now.

I've sailed on every catamaran Hobie's ever built except the 3.5 and the 21. I've raced the 14, 16, 17, 18, Tiger and 20.

Bill Jeffers (h16bill) is the man when it comes to rudders. He told me about removing the rubber pad last fall on my new boat when I had the same complaint as you, Mike.

No matter how much you think you know about these boats, there's always more to learn.
Author:  MUST5429 [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
DavidBell47 wrote:
there's one thing we don't usually do on this site. We typically don't use or even emply "wrong" and MBound in the sentence. :oops: That's considered to be an oxymoron. :lol: I think he must've sailed all his life, and when he's not sailing, he must be reading about sailing. :lol:


Thats just ONE of the reasons we call him Yoda :P

Stephen
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