Hobie Forums :: View topic - tiller crossbar and rudder arms

We went away from that and to straight tubes... late 80's? Can't remember, but a long, long time ago.

Tube only lengths... not including the end fittings...

Quote:

We went away from that and to straight tubes... late 80's? Can't remember, but a long, long time ago.

Matt, I'm almost certain that was '84, straight tubes AND adjustable casting in the same year

The original tiller tubes were bent upwards. I believe to keep the tiller crossbar above the rear beam (higher) at all times... rudders up, down and one up / one down. We went away from that and to straight tubes... late 80's? Can't remember, but a long, long time ago.

Doesn't matter to me, my cams are too tempermental to try the one up one down thing. Even after a full rebuild.

under what conditions would one want to sail with one rudder up and one down? How would one even accomplish such a feat as this while the boat is underway?

Forward.

If facing aft... the tiller will not rest on the tramp. It is suspended in air because the hinge binds on the yoke.

Author:	sunvista [ Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:	tiller crossbar and rudder arms
A few weeks ago I posted here about my tiller crossbar adjusters being adjusted all the way out in order to get the proper toe-in. Since that time three more H16's have appeared on the beach (all late 70's to early 80's) so I took my tape measure out and made some comparisons and here are the measurements. The longest crossbar is just short of 76". The next is 75.5" then 74.5" and then mine is shortest at 73". This explains why my adjusters are extended to their limits but not the disparity of all the measurements. Anyone have any theories about this? On a related subject I noticed that two of the H16s (including mine) have rudder arms with a kick in them upwards of around 15-20 degrees. The other two H16's rudder arms are perfectly straight although one of these two has the H20 crossbar conversion kit. Any theories or explanation here too? Are there a bunch of H14 parts mixed up here?

Author:	mmiller [ Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:58 pm ]
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Tube only lengths... not including the end fittings... I think it is likely you have a Hobie 14 tiller crossbar. The 14 had a 74" long tube. Most adjustable H16 versions were 76". The latest is 75 3/4" I think. Some reasons for differing lengths on 16 tiller crossbars: The original H16 tiller crossbar was longer and had no adjustment. The adjustable end fitting (60400011) came along when the 18 was developed. The crossbars were then likely offered with one adjuster and then finally two. Many installed their own as an update. All required cutting the tiller crossbar at different lengths. There are also a few aftermarket systems out there and finally the current M20 design (started on the Hobie 20). Tiller arms: They all angle inboard (castings are angled) to achieve "Ackerman". This allows the rudder on the inside of a tack to turn at a sharper angle than the outboard rudder which travels on a larger radius through the turn. The original tiller tubes were bent upwards. I believe to keep the tiller crossbar above the rear beam (higher) at all times... rudders up, down and one up / one down. We went away from that and to straight tubes... late 80's? Can't remember, but a long, long time ago.

Author:	J_Eaton [ Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: We went away from that and to straight tubes... late 80's? Can't remember, but a long, long time ago. Matt, I'm almost certain that was '84, straight tubes AND adjustable casting in the same year

Author:	sunvista [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:07 am ]
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mmiller wrote: Tube only lengths... not including the end fittings... Yes, I was measuring only the tubes, not the adjusters. Thanks for the insight. I wonder if my 73" tube can be updated with the Miracle 20 kit? Or is it too short for that too?

Author:	JRagg [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:39 am ]
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J_Eaton wrote: Quote: We went away from that and to straight tubes... late 80's? Can't remember, but a long, long time ago. Matt, I'm almost certain that was '84, straight tubes AND adjustable casting in the same year The 84 in my driveway has straight tubes. I didn't notice until after I read this.

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tiller crossbar and rudder arms http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9863	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Tri_X_Troll [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:46 am ]
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mmiller wrote: The original tiller tubes were bent upwards. I believe to keep the tiller crossbar above the rear beam (higher) at all times... rudders up, down and one up / one down. We went away from that and to straight tubes... late 80's? Can't remember, but a long, long time ago. I've got the old bent tubes, and the crossbar isn't always above the rear beam. It's pretty high when the rudders are up, but ends up really low when they are up. Perhaps with one up and one down it would be above the bar. I dunno. Doesn't matter to me, my cams are too tempermental to try the one up one down thing. Even after a full rebuild.

Author:	sunvista [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:03 am ]
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Tri_X_Troll wrote: Doesn't matter to me, my cams are too tempermental to try the one up one down thing. Even after a full rebuild. You guys are obviously privy to the more esoteric methods of beachcat sailing but...under what conditions would one want to sail with one rudder up and one down? How would one even accomplish such a feat as this while the boat is underway?

Author:	buyer [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:18 am ]
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For what its worth, I measured my 1981 H16 cross bar at 75" (not including fittings) and the arms are bent upward. I believe this all original equipment.

Author:	srm [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:18 am ]
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Quote: under what conditions would one want to sail with one rudder up and one down? How would one even accomplish such a feat as this while the boat is underway? It's mostly just a "racer thing" done to reduce drag and improve feel. It takes a little practice, but if the rudders and cams are working smoothly, it doesn't take much effort to reach back and kick one up or down. For casual sailing, it's not worth the effort. sm

Author:	mmiller [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:51 am ]
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One up is mostly a down wind thing. It does help steering as the blades don't fight each other.

Author:	sunvista [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:28 am ]
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Has anyone here converted an earlier H16 with the after market H20 crossbar adjuster kit?

Author:	mmiller [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:46 pm ]
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The "1953" upgrade sell like hot cakes. It is a great system and why it is standard on the boats now. Little, if any, latteral slop. Easy to remove the crossbar.

Author:	sunvista [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:15 pm ]
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One more crossbar question. The tiller mounting hole in the middle is drilled at an angle. When the crossbar is correctly mounted, should that hole be facing forward or aft?

Author:	mmiller [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:37 pm ]
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Forward. If facing aft... the tiller will not rest on the tramp. It is suspended in air because the hinge binds on the yoke.

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Author:	The Dog [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:28 pm ]
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mmiller wrote: Forward. If facing aft... the tiller will not rest on the tramp. It is suspended in air because the hinge binds on the yoke. You ever thought about building a slightly taller yoke? Brian C