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14 vs 16
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8322		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  TonyB [ Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  14 vs 16
I have a Hobie 14 and sail it with my wife. Total weight is 135kg (300 lb). It's a great boat but is a bit of a handful when starting to fly a hull, as the leeward hull starts to dive. I'm thinking about getting a Hobie 16.

How would the two boats compare in say, 20 knots ? I would assume we would both need to be on the trap on the 16 compared to one on the 14 ?

Would the 16 be easier to sail ?
Author:  buzzman2 [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
In 20 knots, easier to sail, no. It actually would be more of a handful with a 16. I compare the two like a V6 to a V8. If you feel uneasy on 14 at times, I think it would only intensified on the 16. In 20 knots, the 16 is just a harder boat to hold down. If I were going from a 14 to a 16 it would be because I would want more performance out of any given wind.
There are other models that are less prone to pitchpoling than a 16 and also easier to handle in heavy winds.
Author:  TonyB [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
[quote="buzzman2"]
There are other models that are less prone to pitchpoling than a 16 and also easier to handle in heavy winds.[/quote]
What would you recommend ?
Author:  buzzman2 [ Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Tony,

What are the conditions you normally sail in? and is it normally just you and your wife? Also, how high up is hull flying on your priority list?
Author:  TonyB [ Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
[quote="buzzman2"]Tony,

What are the conditions you normally sail in? and is it normally just you and your wife? Also, how high up is hull flying on your priority list?[/quote]

We like to sail in the warmer months here in Sydney and that means many afternoons with wind exceeding 15knots. I've been a keen windsurfer in the past and 20knots was our minimum wind ... I'm still getting used to trying to find light wind days our Hobie 14. Perhaps that's just the way it is for sail boats ?
Trying to fly a hull is fun ... pushing things is fairly natural so I suppose it would be a priority. I assume that flying a hull in lighter winds means the boat won't handle moderate winds ?
Author:  buzzman2 [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:15 am ]
Post subject: 
As far as boats that less likely to pitchpole...Hobie products: the wave or getaway if your wondering about other products I would take this question to catsailor. I've got a friend with a 16 and a wave. He solos most of the time and when the winds are much over 15knots, he's on the wave and lovin it.

Back to your 14, I would try a couple things first as far as keeping the leeward hull from diving. Is your mast raked back? I would actually rake it back pretty far in your(unbelieveable) conditions. (I'm jealous) There are also anti dive foils for I know at least the 16, not sure if they would fit a 14. I have a friend that made some homemade ones for his 16 and he swore they worked. There are other things you can do to depower your 14, which I'm sure some other 14 owners could chime in on. You will always have to get your weight back when the wind gets up on the 14.
Author:  pbisesi [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
OK, You are putting 300lbs on a 14. Nothing you can do will stop the leaward hull from sinking. I weigh 220 and in a blow the thing submarines.
The 16 is the boat for you and your wife.
Boats don't pitchpole, skippers do.
Don't put the foils on. Just practice and you will get to a point where pitchpoling is not an issue in almost any upwind condition.
Pitch poling downwind in 20 knots is still a very real possibility.
Author:  TonyB [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Many thanks Pat.

I suppose even at 220 there's the added weight of your wetsuit etc and once the leeward hull starts to go under, there's lots more drag that doesn't help either.

Now to find a 16 !
Author:  buzzman2 [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree with Pat, except, if you consistently have 20 kt winds, your wife better be pretty hard core and if she is, game on and good for you and I'd like to know if you can clone her. A 16 is just a much harder boat to keep down than a 14 in those conditions. At least you won't have to spend too much money to find out. I'm also a much better pitchpoler on my 16 than my 20. :oops:

Here's one for you: If you and your wife are on a freeway with no other cars on the road and the possibility of getting a ticket is nill. Would she be game for going as fast as your car can go? If she is, maybe the 16 is the boat. :D
Author:  TonyB [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
buzzman2,
You'd never guess it to look at her but she's very game ... she comes rock climbing, snow camping, mountain biking with me ... and she was once trapped under the Hobie 14 when we pitched and turned turtle ... and she didn't panic, despite not being able to swim.

If my wife and I are on a freeway and she's driving, I reckon I'm pretty game to even be there ... she's only recently got her driver's licence

I assume that the 16 will handle stronger winds if we get caught out, by sheeting out enough ? Any tricks for handling over-powered conditions, especially running broad and tacking ... I assume its best to forget about gybing ?
Author:  buzzman2 [ Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:50 am ]
Post subject: 
More mast rake, a tight downhaul, and running the traveler about half way out will help settle the 16 down. The 16 is an easy boat to get into "irons" when tacking and requires some practice to prevent. The 16 turns like the 14 "like crap" compared to a dagger board cats. Did you run a jib with your 14? If you didn't you will have to become good at using the jib to help you turn "backwinding" and never slamming or being too deliberate with the rudders. The 14, 16, and 18 are probably the toughest cats ever made and can handle gybes pretty well. You will have to gybe in certain situations and should not be afraid to, gybing is your friend on a 16 and you should actually practice it, in lighter conditions, so the tougher conditions are easier. Just before the wind catches the sail on a gybe, as you are turning away from the wind. Make sure you are traveled out well, uncleat the main and grab the sheets with one hand just below the upper blocks and swing the main over while holding on to the uncleated mainsheet and ease the sail out once it swings. This helps alleviate the stress of a gybe for you and the boat. You'll be in control of the gybe instead of vice versa, it's less violent of a happening.
Author:  TonyB [ Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:40 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks buzzman.
Yes, our 14 has a small jib. Tacking is no problem by using gentle rudder, allowing the jib to take the boat around before switching the jib to the new side, and having the main sheeted on hard. The only difficulty has been a couple of times in strong winds where we have had to reverse to tack.

Light wind gybes are OK, sheeting in then sheeting out through the gybe, but I've avoided it in stronger winds.

Should we expect any major differences with the 16 ?
Author:  buzzman2 [ Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
The mast is a little more work to raise. Operationally, they are very similiar. You'll just be doing things much faster, it is just a much larger sail area, it's a bigger engine. You'll have a blast. In a blow you will have to keep your weight toward the back of the boat, especially when double trappedin heavy chop There were many times when I would have myself and crew at the back corner of the boat, what a blast. My crew is a guy, so that's why I got the 20, I grew tired of rubbing elbows.
Author:  Karl Brogger [ Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
going down wind in really heavy air pulling the main traveler closer to center, and driving really deep seems to help. It's gotta be really freakin windy to make that really pay though. The biggest thing is to keep your speed up when jibing. A gust comes and your not hardly moving will end with an unhappy result.
Author:  MisterSteve124 [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 14 vs 16
TonyB wrote:
I have a Hobie 14 and sail it with my wife. Total weight is 135kg (300 lb). It's a great boat but is a bit of a handful when starting to fly a hull, as the leeward hull starts to dive. I'm thinking about getting a Hobie 16.

How would the two boats compare in say, 20 knots ? I would assume we would both need to be on the trap on the 16 compared to one on the 14 ?

Would the 16 be easier to sail ?


Are you saying you can fly a hull with 2 people on?
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