Hobie Forums :: View topic - First "Real" sail

I think you are correct about a looser rig being better(faster) downwind. That leward shroud is going to touch the sail no matter what when you sail deep enough.

As far as how tight the rig is....I dont know. Tight enough that everything does not WHAM WHAM WHAM around when taking wake from a motorboat while becalmed (there is still some banging and flopping around of sails, just not violent or jarring). I make sure I can rotate the mast to ~90 degrees by hand.

I was using the main sheet for the traveler line, but found that sometimes when I had the sheet in my hand I'd release the traveler instead of the main.

I pull in the main and traveler when jibing and don't let the sail and traveler just swing from side to side.

I have this condition pretty frequently, coming out of a tack or reach into a jibe (some bozo has cut me off, is the usual reason). The WAVE will pitch sometimes if sail shape is incorrect.

Depending on how strong the wind is... in 10-15 knots, simply releasing the mainsheet so there is tons of luff and leaning way way back will do.

In winds over 20, the sail tends to get propped against the stays (giving it shape) and will still contain too much torque and power so I use a two stage approach... I let out the sail just to start my turn (and keep from capsizing in a reach position) and as the wind starts to dig the bow of my boat into the water I pull the mainsheet back in so the sail is tighter and not catching as much wind.

I've read that using heavier battens for the bottom 3 will reduce the fullness in heavy air.

I've also read of those that double up on the battens, I just wonder if both ends fit in the batten holder at the luff of the sail. If one comes out, could rip the sail.

Another option for flattening the sail would be to add a boom, to gain an out haul.

Author:	oerterch [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:18 am ]
Post subject:	First "Real" sail
I've had my Wave for a little over a month now, and up to yesterday, only had about 6mph winds to sail in. Yesterday it was 15 + (with gusts) and I finally was able to get a feel how the boat handles. On the whole, I' happy with my decision to get the wave, however I do have a few things I need to do. First thing is to get a line catcher, or some other method of keeping the main sheet from being sucked down between the tramp lacing. Next is the traveler line, I was using the main sheet for the traveler line, but found that sometimes when I had the sheet in my hand I'd release the traveler instead of the main. So I figure a different color line, for the traveler would be good and tie the two together. Last thing (so far) is a question I had about Jibing. I pull in the main and traveler when jibing and don't let the sail and traveler just swing from side to side. This lessens the "impact" when the sail swings over. What gets me is the whole rig shakes because it so loose, on past cats I've kept the rig tight. So my question is how much can the boat really take and are there some suggestions on how to control the jib better to lessen the stress on the rigging. Charlie

Author:	scuzzlebutt [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: First "Real" sail
I dont worry about the rig. I let the sail slam on over and it does not hurt anything. Also, I like to keep my rigging slightly tight (but not so tight that the mast cant rotate) because there are prevailing light winds here with heavy motorboat traffic - i.e. lots of wake/chop and I dont like the banging associated with a loose rig.

Author:	oerterch [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: First "Real" sail
I read about leaving the rig loose so that when going down wind (or broad reach) the sail shape isn't deformed by the leeward stay. With the stay loose the sail would push it out of the way and maintain its shape. I never go straight down wind, tacking downwind maintains boat speed and is more fun. So how tight do you keep it. If you grab a side stay, sail down on the beach, how far (degrees) can you rotate your hand? I can rotate mine about 30 degrees.

Author:	scuzzlebutt [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: First "Real" sail
I think you are correct about a looser rig being better(faster) downwind. That leward shroud is going to touch the sail no matter what when you sail deep enough. As far as how tight the rig is....I dont know. Tight enough that everything does not WHAM WHAM WHAM around when taking wake from a motorboat while becalmed (there is still some banging and flopping around of sails, just not violent or jarring). I make sure I can rotate the mast to ~90 degrees by hand.

Author:	IndyWave [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: First "Real" sail
scuzzlebutt wrote: I think you are correct about a looser rig being better(faster) downwind. That leward shroud is going to touch the sail no matter what when you sail deep enough. As far as how tight the rig is....I dont know. Tight enough that everything does not WHAM WHAM WHAM around when taking wake from a motorboat while becalmed (there is still some banging and flopping around of sails, just not violent or jarring). I make sure I can rotate the mast to ~90 degrees by hand. When I get hit by power boat wake, I'll grab the nearest shroud and pull it back tight (and/or sheet in hard) to avoid all the banging around.

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Author:	JJ [ Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: First "Real" sail
Quote: I was using the main sheet for the traveler line, but found that sometimes when I had the sheet in my hand I'd release the traveler instead of the main. I was doing that too. Annoying, ain't it? In really high winds, I have been tripping the traveler way, way too often. So, right now, I have the traveler on a separate, short line. I have read that some put the two lines together with this knot: Fisherman's Bend Quote: I pull in the main and traveler when jibing and don't let the sail and traveler just swing from side to side. I thought that Corey had a great answer for swinging from close hauled to downwind on the Heavy Wind thread: Quote: I have this condition pretty frequently, coming out of a tack or reach into a jibe (some bozo has cut me off, is the usual reason). The WAVE will pitch sometimes if sail shape is incorrect. Depending on how strong the wind is... in 10-15 knots, simply releasing the mainsheet so there is tons of luff and leaning way way back will do. In winds over 20, the sail tends to get propped against the stays (giving it shape) and will still contain too much torque and power so I use a two stage approach... I let out the sail just to start my turn (and keep from capsizing in a reach position) and as the wind starts to dig the bow of my boat into the water I pull the mainsheet back in so the sail is tighter and not catching as much wind. I know, that that is not about jibing. But it shows how sail shape is important. My biggest problem right now is that my Wave has too much pocket in the sail for high winds. I call it my "power pocket". In really heavy air, it is a killer because I can't get the sail flat enough. Way too much speed. Cranking down on the downhaul has not tamed it. I suspect my battens are too limber... but I haven't seen where Hobie sells stiffer ones. Or if double battens might help??? I understand about the "whole rig shaking". I did set up loose, where the shroud, when in your hand, can be twisted to about a 45 degree angle. But for fun sailing that is too loose, IMO. I prefer moderately tight. If the sail is deformed by the leeward shroud, I haven't noticed any lessening in speed... but I am not racing. To answer your question, though, the Wave is extremely tough. Even before considering shroud damage, doing too much big impact when jibing WILL get you a swim. Don't ask how I know...

Author:	oerterch [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: First "Real" sail
Well its the weekend and of course the wind has died, so waiting for the next front to roll through and try out some of the suggestions. I have a set of H-14 battens up in the attic, I'm gonna compare with the Wave battens to see if they are heaver/stiffer. I've read that using heavier battens for the bottom 3 will reduce the fullness in heavy air. I've also read of those that double up on the battens, I just wonder if both ends fit in the batten holder at the luff of the sail. If one comes out, could rip the sail. Another option for flattening the sail would be to add a boom, to gain an out haul. I have one of them in the attic also. Just have to practice the limbo a bit to avoid having the boom live up to its name. Charlie

Author:	JJ [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: First "Real" sail
Quote: I've read that using heavier battens for the bottom 3 will reduce the fullness in heavy air. They will but where do you get heavier battens? Many talk about stiffer battens, but I have googled around and found no "stiff-stiffer-stiffest" batten selection???? Quote: I've also read of those that double up on the battens, I just wonder if both ends fit in the batten holder at the luff of the sail. If one comes out, could rip the sail. Heard this too and that's a good question. Great solution but really bad consequences. Isn't it true that some advice is real cheap but the results/repairs are really expensive? Quote: Another option for flattening the sail would be to add a boom, to gain an out haul. Rick White calls the double batten in the bottom slot a "boom". Although, no outhaul.

Author:	zzcoreyzz [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: First "Real" sail
I keep my shrouds as tight as I can manage with my own strength and weight when I pull/connect the mainstays. I can not stand slop in the rig. As for wakes and waves causing the rig to bang around, try to keep the sail full of wind, this keeps all the rigging taunt. Sometimes, it's unavoidable as you're tacking across wind, but usually, if you can, that's all you need: A sail full of wind.

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