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OCS or Individual recall???
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8667		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  J_Eaton [ Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  OCS or Individual recall???
Why? Is it purely the discretion of RC to have an individual recall or just score OCS? Does it have to do with length of line and support boats available?

Curious in Kansas
Author:  Dlennard [ Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
J Eaton,

I don't really understand your question. A individual recall is when one or more boats are over the starting line early(started before the flag). The boats that were over early can go back and clear the line and restart and finish the race with no penalty. The boats that were over early and did not go back and start correctly get scored a OCS.
Author:  MBounds [ Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
From the Racing Rules of Sailing:
Quote:
29 RECALLS
29.1 Individual Recall
When at a boat’s starting signal any part of her hull, crew or equipment
is on the course side of the starting line or she must comply with
rule 30.1, the race committee shall promptly display flag X with one
sound. The flag shall be displayed until all such boats are completely
on the pre-start side of the starting line or its extensions and have
complied with rule 30.1 if it applies, but not later than four minutes
after the starting signal or one minute before any later starting signal,
whichever is earlier.


30.1 is the "around the ends" rule, where the "I" flag is used as the preparatory signal.
Author:  J_Eaton [ Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
OK, thanks guys. I thought on individual recall RC was required to hail sail numbers of competitors over early :? That's why I really didn't understand how you could be OCS and not at least have an inkling that you were over early. Knowing the flag must come down after all OSC boats have cleared is good info. I suppose the reason boats score OCS is they're thinking "it wasn't me...must have been them"? And just take the chance and race on? Or...just not paying attention.

I've heard said if you don't get an OCS every once in a while your not pushing your starts hard enough. To me an OCS is simply an un-excusable error on your part, unless you're buried in the middle of the fleet, and have a race to give.
Author:  MBounds [ Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Unless you learn start agressively, you will be condemned to the middle of the pack. It's very hard to judge the starting line from the middle. Being OCS occasionally is part of the game.

From an RC perspective, a lot of consideration is given to controlling classes that have aggressive starts (Hobies are not known to be one of them - except maybe at a 16 NA's).

A technique used by the Thistle class involves the use of a large "V" flag (red X on white background). It's flown in the last 2 min. before the start whenever anyone is OCS. It works for them because they have 3 crew. At the start, someone is always looking for the flag. That's the "carrot" approach.

The "stick" approach is the variety of starting penalties that the RC can impose - "I" flag, "Z" flag (20% penalty), "I" over "Z" and the infamous Black Flag. :twisted:
Author:  nelson.peter [ Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you are getting bad starts, then you probably need to be more aggressive and chance the occasional OCS. If you are getting good starts, don't change a thing.

In Fiji, they were using "I" (around the ends) and black flag (DSQ) exclusively. They didn't even mess with the "AP". It worked pretty good...unless you were BFD (Black Flag Disqualification).

I had never sailed under a black flag before and didn't know this. But if you are BFD, the RC comes over and tells you. If you do not retire immediately, then you eat a DSQ-C (non-throwable). When the black flag goes up, you cannot be in the triangle formed by the start buoys and the weather mark one minute before the start. It is a pretty harsh penalty, and keeps the fleet in line. PU used it a couple of times in Alameda at last year's 16 NACs.

In Fiji a couple of guys got caught BFD and had to sit on the sidelines while everone else raced. In that heat, it was a double penalty!
Author:  rattle 'n hum [ Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
J_Eaton wrote:
I thought on individual recall RC was required to hail sail numbers of competitors over early :? That's why I really didn't understand how you could be OCS and not at least have an inkling that you were over early. Knowing the flag must come down after all OSC boats have cleared is good info. I suppose the reason boats score OCS is they're thinking "it wasn't me...must have been them"? And just take the chance and race on? Or...just not paying attention..


Is it true that the RC is required to hail sail numbers? I don't see that in the rules.

Thanks in advance for the clarification.

Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
Author:  J_Eaton [ Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Is it true that the RC is required to hail sail numbers? I don't see that in the rules.
Maybe the rules were different in 1983? Or I'm recalling an extremely lenient RC from that era.
Author:  hobieokc [ Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
No, the RC is not required to announce sail #'s. An example of when to use individual v. general recall remembered a start where it was obvious that the entire fleet consisting of 10+ boats were over early, except one that had arrived late. The RC flew the individual recall flag, started calling off sail #'s to the recorder and kept flying the flag since only a few of the boats re-started. From what I understand, this is perfectly legal, although a more lenient RC would have probably flown the general recall.
Author:  J_Eaton [ Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ahhh, I bet since I started on the committee boat end of the line 90% of the time, I was close enough (or lucky enough) to hear OCS sail numbers being called out to the person recording them. :)
Author:  MBounds [ Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
The reason that OCS numbers aren't typically called is that it's unfair to the people that can't / don't hear them. They can request redress for that. (You cannot protest the RC, you can only request redress, and only under specific circumstances will it be granted by the Protest Committee.)

Regarding Individual vs General Recall - if the RC can identify the boats that are OCS, then it should do an Individual Recall. A General Recall penalizes the boats that start properly.

I've done one of the "everybody's over but XXX" starts. They were pissed. Too bad. It wasn't my fault they were over early.
Author:  nelson.peter [ Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Seattle Yacht Club on Puget Sound experimented with calling OCS's over via VHF, and communicating a lot with racers -- answering any questions they had, etc., etc. All the racers thought it worked out great. We even called in to the RC about 45 sec. after the start to ask if we were over early. (We weren't.)

Works great on big boats. Tough to do on beach cats. Also requires a full RC crew that is experienced. But when you have it, it makes for more enjoyable racing.
Author:  Karl Brogger [ Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've posted this before (but its still funny).

OVER THE LINE!
Image
Author:  bphendri12 [ Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
nelson.peter wrote:
Seattle Yacht Club on Puget Sound experimented with calling OCS's over via VHF, and communicating a lot with racers -- answering any questions they had, etc., etc. All the racers thought it worked out great. We even called in to the RC about 45 sec. after the start to ask if we were over early. (We weren't.)

Works great on big boats. Tough to do on beach cats. Also requires a full RC crew that is experienced. But when you have it, it makes for more enjoyable racing.


Not to mention the fact that I belive it is specifically against class rules.
Author:  rattle 'n hum [ Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks all.....your responses have confirmed my understanding of the recall rules.

Jerome
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