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Looking for DIY jib fabrication & Install
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=63626		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  kansaspaul [ Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  Looking for DIY jib fabrication & Install
Greetings,

Like the title states - I'm looking for some specific instructions to construct and rig a jib sail for a pre-2015 adventure island. I recently purchased a used AI and found that it is underpowered. Much of the sailing that I do is in light winds and the boat needs more sail area. I've used the search function and I have found dialog about adding a jib but haven't been able to find a specific plan for an install. Ideally, the jib would furl with the main sail.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Paul
Author:  stringy [ Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for DIY jib fabrication & Install
You’re aware that Hobie intended to add a jib to the Islands?
My early TI came with extra hardware for a jib but Hobie did not go ahead with it due to bow folding issues.
There are lots of posts on jibs but no specific intructions I recall.
As far as furling with the main Roger Mann posted this on YouTube:

More info here- https://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/view ... 5&p=148242

If it’s light wind only sailing you want to improve then you might consider adding a TI sail to the AI-
Image
More info https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=42630
Author:  kansaspaul [ Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for DIY jib fabrication & Install
The furling jib set-up is precisely what I am looking to do. The challenge for me is deciphering how the sail was rigged. I watched the video several times and as far as I can tell from the video the owner installed an extra cam cleat on the forward aka and I presume that there is a single block installed a the bow with the jib line attached to the mast base.

Trying to figure this out without having to experiment - may be that's how it will work for me in the end. As I do work through this I'll do my best to take photos.


This may be my winter project.
Author:  tpdavis473 [ Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for DIY jib fabrication & Install
kansaspaul wrote:
Greetings,

Like the title states - I'm looking for some specific instructions to construct and rig a jib sail for a pre-2015 adventure island. I recently purchased a used AI and found that it is underpowered. Much of the sailing that I do is in light winds and the boat needs more sail area. I've used the search function and I have found dialog about adding a jib but haven't been able to find a specific plan for an install. Ideally, the jib would furl with the main sail.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Paul


Here is a video on how to fabricate a radial head sail (useful for making a simple jib or any other sail for that matter).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQwhRKERclU

Given that the bow isn't reinforced, I'd first try Stringy's suggestion and get a bigger mainsail and/or taller mast. Jibs put a lot of load on the bow-especially when you crank down on the mainsail. It would also increase the load on the mast base.
Author:  fusioneng [ Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for DIY jib fabrication & Install
Easiest solution is to just pick up a hobie kayak sail, (It’s about the right size for an AI, but a tad small for the TI).
The bow padeye is strong enough. We had pvc roto furlers on all our kayak sails, and jibs, (simple to make, takes 15 minutes to make and $5 bucks in materials.
On ours we just removed the bungy from up the center of the mast and ran a rope up thru the center with clips at the top and bottom, (super simple).
You will need to add a mast topper so you can still furl the main. There are tons of really simple designs out there, It’s not at all difficult.
I prefer halyard lines to raise the jib. You shouldn’t need to worry about needing a rear stay line as long as you have a mast on the jib, (otherwise the jib just turns into a taco shell because of the floppy main mast).
Use the search function to find any of the hundred or so designs presented on the forum over the years. Try to keep it as simple as possible, (bypass the inspector gadget designs).
FE
Author:  kansaspaul [ Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for DIY jib fabrication & Install
fusioneng wrote:
Easiest solution is to just pick up a hobie kayak sail, (It’s about the right size for an AI, but a tad small for the TI).
The bow padeye is strong enough. We had pvc roto furlers on all our kayak sails, and jibs, (simple to make, takes 15 minutes to make and $5 bucks in materials.
On ours we just removed the bungy from up the center of the mast and ran a rope up thru the center with clips at the top and bottom, (super simple).
You will need to add a mast topper so you can still furl the main. There are tons of really simple designs out there, It’s not at all difficult.
I prefer halyard lines to raise the jib. You shouldn’t need to worry about needing a rear stay line as long as you have a mast on the jib, (otherwise the jib just turns into a taco shell because of the floppy main mast).
Use the search function to find any of the hundred or so designs presented on the forum over the years. Try to keep it as simple as possible, (bypass the inspector gadget designs).
FE



So, if I understand correctly when you say have a mast on the jib, you have a rigid piece of material the jib is connected to and that "mast" is attached to the top of the main and at the bow padeye? I've found a jib from a sea skimmer, measures 43" at the base, 9'9'' at the leech and 10'6" at the luff. Adds roughly 25% more sail area (assuming my math is correct). Making this into a furler rig would be great. I would need to explore the mast topper (maybe make my own) - wanting to stay away from a back stay. I'm wanting to make the ease of getting into/out of the water as quick as possible a priority. I chose the AI for that purpose as I don't have big chunks of time to set up a sailboat (I've been sailing MC16 scows, which I love, but take too much time to trailer sail).

Paul
Author:  fusioneng [ Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for DIY jib fabrication & Install
Yea the mast on the jib is pretty important because of the floppy main mast. The Hobie kayak sail has a 7/8” dia aluminum mast, when adding the pvc furler into the mix, the mast makes life easier. Others have used jibs without masts, but most don’t work. The reason being nearly all other boats have rigid stayed masts, and all jibs are designed to work with those masts.
Your mast is a windsurfer mast and by design bends 2-3ft at the top. This makes adding a jib to the boat 10x harder to do, and also means jibs from most every other boat won’t work, (I described as turning into a taco shape earlier), yea that happens, basically it won’t improve upwind capability much, (if any) without the mast.
Don’t expect adding a jib will turn the boat into an h16 cat, (ain’t gonna happen).
If you do everything right, (design wise) you should be able to increase your upwind pointing ability from about 50 degrees down to around 30 degrees upwind, and should increase your upwind speed a couple mph at best. On a reach you will see maybe a couple mph speed increase in lower/moderate winds, but in higher winds you have to furl earlier, the boat loses helm control, becoming harder to steer, or the wind side force buries your AMA much sooner with the jib.
There have been tons of designs posted on this forum, read thru as many as you can before lifting a finger on anything, (tons of knowledge, and many lessons learned). Especially look up captnchaos, he had quite a few AI’s early on and many lessons learned, he finally got it all working well but lots of hard knocks.
Keep in mind 95% of those that try to add jibs, fail and give up. Basically it’s way harder than it looks or seems, and take a lot of engineering and trial and error to solve, most give up.
Sorry I can’t be of more help, all my stuff is all based on wing sails since 2012, all of which works on completely different principles and will be no help to you.
FE
Author:  vetgam [ Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for DIY jib fabrication & Install
Paul, I ran with a the Roger Mann style of jib on my AI for a couple of years. It works pretty well with a few mods that allow for better sheeting angles. Your sheet has to provide equal tension on the leach and foot to get the most of the jib. Every jib setup has compromises. All in all, it worked pretty well. Very quick setup time. You can add a canvas tag to the sail about 1/3 of the way down the mast which means the effective mast bend that effects the jib is less. I think I posted a how-to video in a past post. I'll post it again if you can't find it.

I switched to using a snuffing bag vs Rodgers method when the spinnaker came out. I use the spinnaker rigging to raise either sail. The jib is snuffed on my left and the spinnaker to the right. This arraignment allows me to fold the amas in without taking the apart or removing the snuffing bags/extra sails. My setup and take down time is about the same as a standard AI.

FE's options and the 2 above are all viable.
My jib setup adds about 1-1.5 mph but sacrifices point just slightly. I trade performance slightly for convience.
Author:  fusioneng [ Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for DIY jib fabrication & Install
Yea everyone needs a specific intent that they are looking to focus on from the very beginning, before lifting a finger on anything. There is no solution that does everything, trying to cover everything just muddy’s the water and can get confusing.
In our case after two outings when we first got our boat I was really dissapointed in the upwind pointing ability of the boat, (around 50 degrees), and capabilities in the typical lower winds in our area, ( typically around 5mph).
I’ll be first to admit I lost focus early on and went on weird tangents, ( lol, thus the hydrofoils, and Twin 8hp outboards), lol nearly killed myself. In 2012 once I got back on my original track and stayed focussed on my original intent I was able to accomplish my goals, (and then some). The final design exceeded even my expectations, but not without some sidetracks.
Setup time is of prime importance, try not to design a kluge that takes an hour to rig, you will lose interest if you do.
FE
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