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Does peddling increase sailing speed?
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=13625		 Page 1 of 6
Author:  Aledal [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Does peddling increase sailing speed?
If the Island is sailing in 12mph winds etc. and the Mirage drive top speed is, say,6 mph-does peddling hard increase the speed of the boat?
or-
Two identical Islands are sailing North with winds from the East/Southeast @ 12 mph.
Island #1 is 75ft. straight ahead of Island #2 with drive removed and cassette plugged in.
Island #2 is peddling the drive/turbo fins hard.

Is #2 gaining on #1?
Author:  Yakaholic [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does peddling increase sailing speed?
Using the mirage does add speed to your sailing up to a point. You can definitely get the boat almost up on plane in a burst of speed by sprinting in a decent 12mph or so wind. Pretty exciting.

At some point, especially when the boat is heeling under gusty wind, the flippers can cavitate - especially on the windward side. Heck, the windward flipper can sometimes be flailing in the air on a medium reach in 12+mph.

A little pedaling also helps out in upwind sailing and can compensate for weather helm.

For a treat though you can remove the drive entirely and put in the cassette plug, the boat will sail faster without the drive if you don't plan to pedal any at all. Be sure to leash the drive.

I often pedal while sailing to gain extra speed to overtake other sailboats on the water. :twisted: :lol:
Author:  Aledal [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does peddling increase sailing speed?
Hmmm... I suspect you`re right yak. It seemed that the boat did kick forward a bit while I was racing a much bigger 30ft sailboat.Tried to steal her wind but she just laughed at me :l Im in the habit of leaving the drive in with both fins pointing down to act as a centerboard. But on a long trip I would be tempted to leash it as you say. Thanks.
Author:  Ditch Crawler [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does peddling increase sailing speed?
Aledal wrote:
If the Island is sailing in 12mph winds etc. and the Mirage drive top speed is, say,6 mph-does peddling hard increase the speed of the boat?

That's a bit complicated, and probably involves a lot a mathematics...
If you had a lorry load of racing pigeons all resting on the floor of the lorry, and suddenly something happened to scare them all into flight, would the lorry suddenly weigh a lot less?
The effect of adding peddle-power to sail-power will vary according to your point of sail - sailing downwind, it would have the effect of reducing the apparent windspeed, and therefore de-powering your sail, because you would be 'running away' from the wind.
Sailing upwind, peddling would increase the apparent wind speed (like running on a still day - you would feel air moving across your face because your motion creates an 'apparent' wind), and might increase the power in your sail, giving you a double benefit.

Ditch x
Author:  Aledal [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does peddling increase sailing speed?
Hi Ditch-still dont know how to quote on this site so bare with me.
Downwind would slow her but upwind would benefit.
I dont know what a lorry is but less weight is less weight so it would have to move faster?

So do you agree or disagree with Admiral Yakaholic?

Im beginning to think the overall answer to the question is no.
Author:  KayakingBob [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does peddling increase sailing speed?
My experience is, it depends on your current boat speed and direction compared to the water. Downwind, if I'm going at lease 6-8mph (my sprinting peddling speed) ,peddling will not help. Going upwind at any speed, peddling can help. On reached it seems to help for a few seconds, unless you're going slow because of light winds.
Author:  Aledal [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does peddling increase sailing speed?
So if you peddle hard with wind and tide equal between you and another Island NOT peddling... you will overcome her via the Mirage drive?
Author:  Ditch Crawler [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does peddling increase sailing speed?
Aledal wrote:
I dont know what a lorry is


It's a truck

Peddling downwind probably won't actually slow you down, but you would be doing the work of the wind, so why bother peddling...

Upwind, you would be adding to the work of the wind, and having lotsafun

Close-reaching, beam-reaching, quarter-reaching, you gradually move from upwind sailing to downwind sailing, and the whole thing becomes a moveable feast... sailing is not a precise science!
Author:  chrisj [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does peddling increase sailing speed?
The question should really be: Is sailing in winds of 12mph with the drive out faster than pedalling ? If the drive is in and not being used, it must exert a drag, but this drag can be negated by at least gentle pedalling. From checking speeds with the GPS, pedalling downwind definitely increased speed up to a boat speed of about 6-8 mph, despite the loss of apparent wind. I guess this is because the boat can't travel downwind at anything like the wind speed, unless the wind speed is zero - not without a boom or a spinnaker. Sailing upwind, pedalling increases apparent wind and always helps when sailing close hauled. Of course, it's pretty hard to go more than 6-8 mph when pointing high anyway. Sailing a bit more off the wind - say 60 to 90 degrees, when the boat can easily exceed 6-8 mph, pedalling seems to contribute less and less as the boat speeds up.
Author:  Ditch Crawler [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does peddling increase sailing speed?
chrisj wrote:
Sailing a bit more off the wind - say 60 to 90 degrees, when the boat can easily exceed 6-8 mph, pedalling seems to contribute less and less as the boat speeds up.

Beam reaching is generally regarded as the fastest point of sailing, if I remember correctly, possibly because the difference between true wind and apparent wind is at its minimum. On a beam reach, you probably stand the best chance of achieving maximum hullspeed, in which case no amount of peddling will make you go faster
Author:  Aledal [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does peddling increase sailing speed?
I really dont know what to think anymore. Or even how to express it. I do know one thing-thanks guys. Im so lucky to have you as friends...I value the advice.
P.S. Sometimes I cant understand the terminology everyone uses and it drives me nuts! :D
Author:  KayakingBob [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does peddling increase sailing speed?
Quote:
So if you peddle hard with wind and tide equal between you and another Island NOT peddling... you will overcome her via the Mirage drive?


Yes (probably), if your AI is not moving faster than your "sprinting" peddle speed compared to the water.

That's why when racing against other non-peddle boats, they don't want to see you peddling!
Author:  Ditch Crawler [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does peddling increase sailing speed?
Aledal wrote:
I really dont know what to think anymore. Or even how to express it. I do know one thing-thanks guys. Im so lucky to have you as friends.

Honey, just give it a go - if it seems quicker, then it probably is quicker - so long as you're having fun, who cares?
Author:  KayakingBob [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does peddling increase sailing speed?
If you have other AI's to "race" with, it's all fun - with lots of time to play with all of this in all type of situations.

Great FUN
Author:  chrisj [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does peddling increase sailing speed?
I would contend that it would be a rare racing course where an AI with the drive in and being used would not thrash an AI with the drive out. In good wind, the driveless boat might have the edge on a downwind through to beam reach leg, but that would not compensate for the drive's contribution on the other points of sail or when the wind drops. Have you ever tried such a race, Bob?
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