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Converting AI to/from single kayak quickly
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=21857		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  mnormand [ Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Converting AI to/from single kayak quickly
Ahoy mates :lol: Just joined and first post here.
Longtime paddler here, traditional kayak owner/builder. Been thru a few plastic boats, as well as built a stitch/glue, and also a cedar strip from scratch.

We had a demo day yesterday by our local outfitter/retailer, absolutely knocking myself over the head for not taking time to demo an AI :roll: :cry: Too busy trying other stuff and paddling my own stuff. Haven't even tried a Mirage drive system yet :oops:

I usually like simpler stuff, but this AI is very attractive to me. I can't quit thinking about it.
Been reading all morning about cartopping, spray shields, and other usual items that come up.

I haven't run across post about using the yak straight up, for fishing, cruising, daytrips, etc without the sail and other gear. Is the boat itself a respectible paddler? With/without mirage?

Man I've got to get some work done, almost impossible !
Great site here, tons of very usefull info, with nice folks giving it.
Sail on!
Mark
Author:  mmiller [ Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Converting AI to/from single kayak quickly
The AI is based on the Adventure hull, so we sell a ton as stand alone kayaks. This hull in great for pedaling and paddling.
Author:  KayakingBob [ Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Converting AI to/from single kayak quickly
In Adventure mode (the Adventure Island "without the sail and other gear") it's the fastest pedal boat Hobie makes. Many people fish out of it. The Adventure also paddles pretty good.

I and many others fish in full AI mode in the ocean, sometimes in 15-20 mph winds and 4-6 foot wind waves. The AI paddles ok, but you've got a lot more weight and surface in contact with the water. I paddle during some launches and most all landings fine, but pedaling is so much easier. With Turbo fins, after a few times out you should be able to pedal 4mph for hours, and up to 8mph for a min. or more in a sprint.

Both give you far more range than most regular paddle 'yak's.
Author:  mnormand [ Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Converting AI to/from single kayak quickly
Thx guys.

What about single/tandem convertibles?... a lessor concern, but I'm asking... do any of the mirage models go from single to tandem use and back? I'm not seeing that, but need to make sure. My wife is showing some paddling interests, but realistically its going to be +80% single use. She's not interested in padding solo, I'm just happy she wants to try, as she is not a water person at all, but with creature comforts and mild trips, it could work out.
Author:  Chet3 [ Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Converting AI to/from single kayak quickly
I have never tried the Hobie Mirage system but I do have a nice fairly fast sea kayak.

My question is for the same kayak is the mirage drive (with or without turbo fins) faster than paddling? To maintain the same cruising speed is peddaling less energy than paddling?

I can paddle my wood sea kayak (Pygmy Coho - 17'-6" long x 23" wide) at 4-5 mph for an extended time and faster for sprints. I am not in great condition but I have a fast kayak and a good stroke. I think my paddling stroke is efficient but the legs are a stronger muscle group.

This is just a curiosity question from a Hobie cat sailor that also sea kayaks :D I have never tried the Mirage drive but have seen a few out on the water.
Author:  KayakingBob [ Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Converting AI to/from single kayak quickly
You both need to try the Mirage Drive, and especially with Turbo fins and see for yourselves.

I paddled for about 35 years and I wouldn't trade my AI's for any other boat (except maybe my new TI soon).
Author:  mnormand [ Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Converting AI to/from single kayak quickly
I'm pretty much convinced :D We have some paddle club meetings tomorrow and next week at the outfitter shop, and I'm going to pour over the boats. I'm there all the time, and never really had much interest, until yesterday as I watched everyone having so much fun trying new boats. A couple in a tandem w/ mirage passed near me going so fast, you coulda ski'd behind them ! I laughed and yelled back, heck you guys already know how to bike ride, nothing new there!

Chet, search / google the tug-o-wars between paddler and mirage, the mirage almost always wins. I'm not ready to give up my paddle 100% yet, but just kinda ease myself into the mirage world, haha.

I built the Coho too ! Great boat.
Author:  chrisj [ Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Converting AI to/from single kayak quickly
Chet3 wrote:
I have never tried the Hobie Mirage system but I do have a nice fairly fast sea kayak.

My question is for the same kayak is the mirage drive (with or without turbo fins) faster than paddling? To maintain the same cruising speed is peddaling less energy than paddling?

I can paddle my wood sea kayak (Pygmy Coho - 17'-6" long x 23" wide) at 4-5 mph for an extended time and faster for sprints. I am not in great condition but I have a fast kayak and a good stroke. I think my paddling stroke is efficient but the legs are a stronger muscle group.

This is just a curiosity question from a Hobie cat sailor that also sea kayaks :D I have never tried the Mirage drive but have seen a few out on the water.

For any given kayak, the Mirage drive is faster than paddling. Also I would venture to say there are few (if any) solo sit-on-tops as fast as an Adventure hull with a Mirage drive. Whether it is faster than a sea kayak, with a skillful paddler, is a moot point, but there wouldn't be much in it.

As to energy expenditure, it's a different equation. I've gone out with a heart rate monitor, using the Mirage drive, and maintained 90% of maximum heart rate (the top of the aerobic range) for two hours, without feeling excessive fatigue. I would not have been able to maintain that rate while paddling without becoming fatigued. Leg muscles are just better at prolonged exertion.

I still go paddling quite often, because I enjoy the upper body workout and the aesthetics of paddling, but for actually getting places in a hurry, the Mirage drive wins hands down.
Author:  Roadrunner [ Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Converting AI to/from single kayak quickly
Is the Adventure fast? I think if you've got some legs, no SOT short of a surf ski is faster at any distance. Here are a couple of Adventures cruising on boat wakes at about 8 MPH:
Image

Image

How about the Hobie tandem Oasis? Fun, rugged and stable, whether in the tandem mode...
Image

...or solo:
Image

Wind and chop isn't normally much of an issue either for the Mirage Drive. Here we got caught about 2.5 miles downwind in some gusty winds that suddenly came up. My wife isn't real comfortable in the water either but we had no problem cruising right through it:
Image
8)
Author:  mnormand [ Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Converting AI to/from single kayak quickly
Hey thx for the great pics Roadrunner..

Can you expand on using that Oasis solo vs tandem? It's got to have good solo manners and fore/aft balance for me to get interested. Can't be sitting back there with the bow up in the wind, can't quite tell from your pic. I guess the cooler of water/beer/pop could be in the front seat instead?! :D

Those that have seen or own the tandem AI, same issue, can it be efficiently used solo, with or without the sail gear?
From the brochures, almost looks like the front seat would be better for solo use.
Author:  sammy925 [ Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Converting AI to/from single kayak quickly
Look at this honey of a tandem.!!!!


http://www.akff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=26145
Author:  Roadrunner [ Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Converting AI to/from single kayak quickly
mnormand wrote:
Can you expand on using that Oasis solo vs tandem? It's got to have good solo manners and fore/aft balance for me to get interested.
IMO, the tandem Oasis is the most versatile Hobie out there. Properly ballasted it handles superbly as a solo plus it gives you all the room you could want for a second person, dog, furniture or whatever. I thoroughly enjoy it as a solo.

You can take it out for a nice quiet cruise in solitude
Image

It's a fun and very stable boat to sail
Image

It's a blast to race the motorboats, even if they usually win
Image

And with it's enormous capacity, it's very popular for the local clean up events
Image

Image

With the optional large rudder and Turbofins it has an excellent turning radius, can cruise about to about 5 MPH and behaves well in wind and chop except that (like most beamy boats) it will pound upwind in chop. The only downside for some is that it is a little heavier and more awkward to load by yourself than most singles.

You can learn a lot more by using the search feature under Oasis and solo. Here's a link to get you started: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7970
It discusses ballast and other things. 8)
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