I was sailing with TxYackMan the other day...he had his mirage drive in on his TI...my drive was stowed on the AI and I had no trouble sailing the same speed...wind speed was about 8...
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| How much faster is the Tandem versus AI? http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=28238 |
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| Author: | Woodtracker [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | How much faster is the Tandem versus AI? |
Now on this forum many of you guys sail the AI and now own the TI (Lucky ones) can you tell me from your experience if you sail solo how much faster is the TI or the difference not that noticable. Thanks |
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| Author: | KayakingBob [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much faster is the Tandem versus AI? |
The TI should be and seems to be about 1 mph faster than the AI, but close enough that the skill of the sailor can make up the difference. |
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| Author: | TxYackMan [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much faster is the Tandem versus AI? |
I will agree with that statement. The TI and AI appear to be about the same speed with perhaps a very slight edge to the TI. |
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| Author: | Paul67 [ Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much faster is the Tandem versus AI? |
Is your estimates of speed with 2 people on board the TI or just 1? |
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| Author: | captain-max [ Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much faster is the Tandem versus AI? |
Picked up my TI today from Josh 'Yakass' Holmes. He mentioned that he went out in his AI, while 2 others went out in a TI. He could keep up with the TI, but had to 'paddle-assist' to do that. Sounds like Bob's suggestion of ~1mph faster should be about right |
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| Author: | Chekika [ Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much faster is the Tandem versus AI? |
I've heard the "1 mile" speed difference a couple times, but it needs to be coupled with the speed of the AI. For example, is the TI a much faster boat at low wind speeds, that is, for example, if the AI is making 3 mph in light winds, will the TI do 4 mph? At 7-8 mph, a "1-mile" speed difference is less noticable and could be made up by a good skipper on the AI. Or, are we saying that the difference is not significant and depends on the pilot? Also, the point about whether the TI has 1 or 2 persons on board is significant. Keith |
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| Author: | pburling [ Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much faster is the Tandem versus AI? |
Just a quick observation about speed comparisons. We need to be sure that we are comparing apples to apples - so, is the comparison with drives in or without drives? I would guess that a TI with both drives in wouldn't be much faster than an AI with its one drive in. Maybe that's the 1 mph that is being suggested. My TI without drives (using the standard plugs) seems considerably faster than my AI did. However, I almost never sailed the AI without the drive and I have found that the TI without drives sails so much better that that is my preferred set up. As a result my recollection is likely to be skewed in favor of the TI. The other apples to apples issue is whether you measure the TI with two adult passengers versus the AI with one. I haven't been able to get my crew to let me go out alone in the TI, so I can't comment on TI speed in solo mode. However, I'm guessing that a TI without drives and two adults will go more than 1 knot faster than an AI without drives and one adult. The hull length and greater sail area virtually require that result, especially given the more refined hull and ama shapes. I should note that I do most of my sailing in an estuary where there aren't oceanic swells or waves. I don't know whether the AI has advantages in bigger waves that would offset the TI's length and greater sail area. P Burling |
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| Author: | ron34422 [ Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much faster is the Tandem versus AI? |
I was sailing with TxYackMan the other day...he had his mirage drive in on his TI...my drive was stowed on the AI and I had no trouble sailing the same speed...wind speed was about 8...
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| Author: | NOHUHU [ Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much faster is the Tandem versus AI? |
Chekika, My only experience on the tandem was in 2 man mode and I was impressed w/ the acceleration of the TI over the AI (sailing the same broad reach and upwind course I had just run in my AI). Much more low to mid-range torque in my opinion. That improved even more when the passenger hikes out on the bars or tramps, pulling the leeward Ama up and giving that big ole sail even more leverage. I quickly got the feeling that, in moderate winds, this was the boat's sweetspot. I did not get to experience her under a heavy windload or in open water. That might impair the TI's advantage. KBob can be much more specific. I only wish I could (sigh). And the TI was RED, so +1mph there. 
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| Author: | Roadrunner [ Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much faster is the Tandem versus AI? |
In my experience solo, the TI will leave the AI behind (one Drive in each), but they are pretty close with two aboard the TI (all Drives installed). Small chop, moderate breeze, factory configuration.  Also, we should remember to factor in color, remembering that yellow is more visible, but red is faster. 
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| Author: | ElementAI [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much faster is the Tandem versus AI? |
10.8 MPH on the GPS yesterday in the AI Hiked on the tramps!! Drive in but against the hull. This is also with water in the hull due to a drivewell crack (awaiting replacement) so a few extra pounds of water weight. Factor to the debate too is weight of the people on the boat. I know when I take a passenger on the tramps the increase weight makes her sink much lower in the water as there is more water in the drivewell and rear area consequently it is harder to go fast. Only when solo do I get the faster speeds. So you have a 180 pound sailor and a 300 pound sailor who will be faster? |
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| Author: | captain-max [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much faster is the Tandem versus AI? |
Roadrunner wrote: ...we should remember to factor in color, remembering that yellow is more visible, but red is faster. But only in the Northern hemisphere.
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| Author: | ron34422 [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much faster is the Tandem versus AI? |
Quote: So you have a 180 pound sailor and a 300 pound sailor who will be faster? The better sailor
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| Author: | dosjers [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much faster is the Tandem versus AI? |
This is the second time I'm trying to post a reply. I don't know where my first attempt went. My wife and I owned and sailed 2 AI's for about a year. We are both very experienced sailors and when we went out together we usually sailed around the same speed. Some days I found myself chasing her and other days I was being chased. We now have a TI and one AI. When we go out with me solo in the TI and my wife in the AI there is a large difference in speed on all points of sail except DDW when the boats are equal. The TI accelerates faster and sails faster especially on a close reach. I end up turning around and going back on a regular basis so that we don't get to separated. Every time we have had the boats out together we had good winds gusting to around 20 mph. I think they would be much closer in speed in light air. We went out together in the TI once and had a friend in his AI out with us. We were much faster in the TI but we have a lot more sailing experience so it was not a good comparison. Contrary to what I have read on the Forum sail trim is critical on these boats. Yes you can get from point A to point B without paying too much attention to sail trim but you will get there a lot faster with the sail trimmed properly. Other differences: the TI does not usually stall when tacking (I have not installed a mirage drive in the TI since I bought it); the TI is dryer when you sail solo and sit in the back seat; the TI is much wetter when you're sailing tandem and sitting in the front seat. |
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| Author: | Eddie [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | acceleration vs. speed |
I have had three trips on my yellow TI since delivery – once solo from the front seat, once solo from the rear seat, and lastly sailing together with my brother. I also have a red (very fast) 08 AI. My subjective impression at this time is that the TIs sailing acceleration is greater than that of an AI. I have yet to test the TIs top end (I am still in the shake down phase of TI sailing) but I suspect that both the TI and AI will top out at nearly the same speed -- with the top end edge with the TI due to its longer length and greater sail area. Other observations: 1. I weigh 210 lbs, and sailing from the rear seat in strong gusts in Sandy Hook Bay, with tramps installed, gave me a very unsettling feeling – with my weight the bow lifted, and with a strong wind blowing it lifted much more, water slapping under the hull, the leeward aka sinking under water, and the TI tilted at precarious angle (I quickly scooted to the front seat to stabilize the boat.) 2. Be sure to tie a knot at the end of both the forward and rear sheet lines. All are lines came undone , the sail flapping in the wind, on my third sail when the rear line came loose. We had to pedal back to shore to correct the mess with the undone lines. 3. Once we got the TI ship-shape we enjoyed seven hours sailing Sandy Hook Bay – with a lunch break on the beach near Skeleton Island. Sailing the TI feels like riding in a comfortable stretch limo. The AI is my sports car in the Hobie kayak sailing fleet – it remains a favorite if I want to car top to the nearby Navesink River for a quick solo afternoon sail. Thanks to all for you contributions to this forum. |
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