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Carrying Water - What do you do ?
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=33888		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Slaughter [ Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:36 am ]
Post subject:  Carrying Water - What do you do ?
For trips I keep the carrying of water simple, and take a number of 2 ltr bottles as I find that they are easier to store in the gaps a crevices around the dry bags. Then once they are empty they can be easily squashed for carrying back home. I have thought about the larger 5 ltr ( I think ) collapsible ones with a tap that you get in supermarkets, but isn't it like putting all your eggs in 1 basket? If your container gets a leak for what ever reason, I would rather loose 2 ltrs than 5 ltrs.

What do you all do for carrying water ?

What's the recommended quantity per day ?
Author:  Chekika [ Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carrying Water - What do you do ?
I have set up a spread sheet. I aim to carry 1 gal/day. Shorter trips can get by w/ a little less water. For example, on a 3-day trip, often the first and last day are only about 1/2 days, so you can almost get by w/ 2 or 2.5 gal of water for the trip. Longer trips, like 7-8 days, you must carry 1 gal/day/person, especially if the days are warm. It doesn't happen often, but, people do have accidents and lose a gal or 2 of water. If everyone is carrying 1 gal/day/person, the loss of a couple gal by one person can be made up by the group. Still, everyone has to be responsible and avoid water-loss accidents. It hasn't happened often in my experience.

Here is my spreadsheet for my upcoming trip on Feb 8.
Image

Using the spreadsheet at my computer, I simply fill in the units column and make adjustments until my total is a gal/day. I count alcoholic beverages the same as water--it is close enough, as long as you don't overdo the alcoholic beverages. My wife has a similar sheet, but she will substitute Arizona Green Tea for some of my Gatorade.

As you can see, I use a mix of containers. Heavy duty Dromedary bags are the greatest--tough, non-leak containers, and they are malleable enough to stick just about anywhere.

One last comment for people from fresh water enviroments. If you are traveling in a salt-water, wilderness environment, there is NO FRESH WATER--water filters WILL NOT WORK. You must carry all your water. In South Florida, you can go a week or 2 w/ little or no food. You can last only a couple days without water. That truth is reaffirmed every year in this area with deadly results.

Keith
Author:  HUM469 [ Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carrying Water - What do you do ?
Chekika wrote:
One last comment for people from fresh water enviroments. If you are traveling in a salt-water, wilderness environment, there is NO FRESH WATER--water filters WILL NOT WORK. You must carry all your water...
Keith


Nice spread sheet Keith. I should use something so simple yet effective, but I still figure it by hand.

I did want to point out something about the comment I quoted here. While you are right if you mean bio-filters that most people have for purifying, then you are right. For those who don't know though, there are a couple of hand powered desalination filters that will work in a salt-water environment so one does not have to carry all their water. The only ones I know specifically are by Katadyn found here:
http://shop.katadyn.com/products/155188/Manual_Survivors

Of course the small one might be a bit of work, and neither is exactly cheap. But if one does a lot of marine travel or has a particularly long trip planned, then the bigger one might be handy. Even the smaller one would be a nice safety backup.
Author:  Slaughter [ Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carrying Water - What do you do ?
Thanks fellas. Great information. I'd never heard of a Dromedary bag or the Katadyn range of stuff till now. Using you chart Keith, do you find at the end of your trips that you generally have plenty of water in reserve, or just a comfortable amount ?
Author:  Chekika [ Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carrying Water - What do you do ?
Regarding the desalination filters, they were mentioned on my "expedition" thread a couple years ago.
http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&start=0

At the time, I responded:
Quote:
I could perhaps pump 3/4 gal (45 minutes) a day to get by in a pinch, but the unit price for the Katadyn Survivor 35 is $1500--kind of takes your breath away.

Keith

They are, as the name implies, survival equiment when lost at sea. Even Freya Hoffmeister never used one circumnavigating Australia solo. Their price makes them prohibitive. I wonder if the kayaker who recently finished paddling across the Atlantic had one? Whatever it was, his desalination unit stopped working on Jan 11 about 3 weeks before he completed the trip. http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/blog/24051/kayaker+64+completes+marathon+paddle+across+atlantic/

Slaughter, I hate to carry extra water. My wife is fond of saying to people: "He likes to finish a 7-day trip with a pint of water." Jokes aside (I think that is a joke), carrying a gal/day/person truly is required in warm weather--spring/fall in south Florida. Cooler weather, like winter sailing in south FL, a gal/day may result in a gal remaining at the end of a 7-day trip. I don't mind carrying extra water on these trips because we like to fish & eat fish. Plenty of water makes cleaning fish on the beach easy.

The serious Dromedary bags (10 L/$45 from REI) last for years (>10) and do not leak. Here in FL you are always warned that raccoons will "do anything" to get water. I leave my Dromedary bags on the beach and raccoons never bother them.

Keith
Author:  Chet3 [ Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carrying Water - What do you do ?
Many years ago someone I know bought a desalinator pump model as a survivor backup for long sailing crossings and for the life raft (think crossing the Atlantic on a sailboat). He was at the beach testing the unit on a hot summer day by sitting in the water and pumping the fresh water directly into his mouth. As stated above the flow rate is very low and it requires a lot of pumping.

Some kids saw this guy sitting in the water at the beach apparently sucking salt water through a rubber hose into his mouth. Their parents called the cops because they thought the guy had gone crazy and was drinking sea water. He finally convinced the police that he was not crazy and was just testing this new technology.

Be careful whey you use the desalinator :D
Author:  chrisj [ Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carrying Water - What do you do ?
Mate, one more tip, if you're going to be exerting yourself a lot pedalling or paddling, is to add cordial to your water. It adds a lot of calories, just when you need them, without adding any bulk to your food supply.

Also, drinking beer actually causes a nett loss of fluid and dehydrates you, as anyone who's had a night on the tiles can attest, so you need to drink extra water to compensate.

Keith doesn't seem to drink a lot of beer on his trips, so his fairly generous water ration would cover it.
Author:  Yakass [ Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carrying Water - What do you do ?
I use 6lt MSR Drom bags (up to 3 for week long expeditions, 1 for backup on day trips), and a GSI wide mouth 'Dukjug' stainless bottle in place of the Hobie bottle. Dukjugs kick ass: http://yakass.net/component/content/article/87/481-gsi-glacier-dukjug-drink-bottle

If I have a need to carry more than the 19lts worth that lot provides, I just use a few extra flat-shaped 2 or 3lt plastic bottles.

Oh, and I also carry a lifestraw, just in case:
http://yakass.net/articles/90-safety/780-lifestraw
Author:  HUM469 [ Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carrying Water - What do you do ?
Chekika wrote:
Regarding the desalination filters, they were mentioned on my "expedition" thread a couple years ago.
http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&start=0

At the time, I responded:
Quote:
I could perhaps pump 3/4 gal (45 minutes) a day to get by in a pinch, but the unit price for the Katadyn Survivor 35 is $1500--kind of takes your breath away.

Keith

They are, as the name implies, survival equiment when lost at sea. Even Freya Hoffmeister never used one circumnavigating Australia solo. Their price makes them prohibitive. I wonder if the kayaker who recently finished paddling across the Atlantic had one? Whatever it was, his desalination unit stopped working on Jan 11 about 3 weeks before he completed the trip. http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/blog/24051/kayaker+64+completes+marathon+paddle+across+atlantic/


Keith,

I am totally with you on the price being up there for sure. And yes, one was part of my emergency kit that went with the life boat when I still had a bigger sail boat. I pumped with it once, just to see what it would be like, and it was pretty much just like my regular water filters of the time. While it wasn't terrible, there was work involved. If I had done a trip like Freya Hobbmeister's amazing voyage, I certainly wouldn't want to hold a pump after holding a paddle hour after hour, day after day. I would be afraid my hands would never straighten again! :shock:

With the Hobies, and the AI's/TI's in particular, I could see myself pumping while peddling/sailing since I have my hands mostly free. True, pumping isn't the most fun that can be had with one's hands on a longer expedition, but the fact that you can is just one more thing I think that makes the Hobies so much nicer and more flexible than most of the boats out there....
Author:  bosab [ Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carrying Water - What do you do ?
Keith and Dylan,
You guys could colaborate and sail the EC with me. Keith wants to buy a TI real bad and wants to do the EC and needs a energetic partner to sail the EC with him. Dylan needs a spot on a TI and Keith has all the local wisdom on the everglades . The dealer in Key Largo has a demo boat he would probably let either of you borrow for the right fee. He even was thinking about entering the race and might need a partner.
Author:  dosjers [ Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carrying Water - What do you do ?
A gallon a day sounds like the minimum amount of water you need and like someone else said alcohol whether beer, wine or hard liquor dries you out. If I was planning a long trip I would add extra water, ounce for ounce to offset any alcohol.

If you buy a hand held desalinator be sure to read the instructions before you test it. I owned a large reverse osmosis unit on a sailboat and if you used it you needed to clean and re-pickle it so the membrane wouldn't fail. I don't know if the small ones require the same type of maintenance but be careful so you don't ruin it before you need it.
Author:  HUM469 [ Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carrying Water - What do you do ?
bosab wrote:
Keith and Dylan,
You guys could colaborate and sail the EC with me. Keith wants to buy a TI real bad and wants to do the EC and needs a energetic partner to sail the EC with him. Dylan needs a spot on a TI and Keith has all the local wisdom on the everglades . The dealer in Key Largo has a demo boat he would probably let either of you borrow for the right fee. He even was thinking about entering the race and might need a partner.


Which dealer in Key Largo is this? The Hobie dealer finder shows both Tiki Water Sports and Florida Bay Outfitters as having Island demos and both being located on Key Largo. I would be happy to partner with Keith too, if he really wants to go for it, but timing is very short now and I am starting to loose a bit of hope in finding a boat or a partner in the next 6 days...
Author:  bosab [ Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carrying Water - What do you do ?
I think his name is Frank at Florida Bay Outfitters. He rents single islands and has a demo tandem I believe. Also many dealers in Tampa area that might be interested especially if you are becoming one yourself. One St Pete, One in Auburndale and one in Sarasota.
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