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Ideal conditions are... http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=34747	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Julian Patrick [ Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:12 am ]
Post subject:	Ideal conditions are...
Took the Ti out today. Force 3-4 onshore said the forecast but was a good 4. Lasted about half hour as the small waves were uncomfortable and it all felt not much fun (was solo and maybe with another would have been less of a wimp). Do you Ai and Ti sailors usually aim for sailing in areas where there is limited fetch (often this can be achieved by sailing when the winds are offshore but then there is the added risk of being blown out to sea if anything goes wrong)? Onshore, offshore, areas with little fetch...?

Author:	KayakingBob [ Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ideal conditions are...
On days with strong winds or gusts, a place with limited fetch can be great. With almost no waves to slow you down, you can really see what the boat can do. We did this with 3 AI's last Tuesday and got up over 10mph over a dozen times and over 9mph most of the time in that area.

Author:	Chekika [ Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ideal conditions are...
I only sail an AI. According to Kayaking Bob aka reconlon, the TI can be a handful in stronger winds. In any case, for the AI, Force 3-4 winds are just when it is beginning to be fun. Waves are just part of the landscape. Most of my sailing is when I am doing AI camping trips, and you take what comes regarding wind, waves, direction--sometimes it is great, sometimes it is a bit of a slog. But, one thing is for sure, if you wait for "ideal conditions," you will be missing out on a lot of sailing fun. In my latest trip, I got caught in force 7-8 winds with a 1 mile fetch--waves were not bad, but wind was tough. You can read the story about my experience as well as others in these serious conditions at http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&start=165 The title of that picture-story is The Storm: AI/TI in 40 knot winds, shark encounter, tethered under a capsized boat. These boats are tough and stable with 2 major forms of propulsion--not much to worry about, except maybe the rudder. When Hobie gets a real AI/TI sailing rudder, which may be soon, it will make all of this a lot more fun and less stressful. Keith

Author:	cliffs2yak [ Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ideal conditions are...
JP, Might be a good time to ask if anyone else experienced something similar. With 10-15mph onshore winds blowing into Hilo Bay, there's some sort of jet stream that's generated along the inside of the bay's protective break wall. With the breakwall blocking the open ocean swells, it creates a low fetch but windy conditions. Without really trying (cause I'm a newbie sailor) last year, I was able to clock and easy 7mph on my fish finder with my sail partly furled in. I think I could have went faster if I opened up the sail and pulled out my mirage drive. Something to try this year. cheers! c2k

Author:	tjsmith68 [ Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ideal conditions are...
Last summer in the intercoastal of Wilmington, NC I had a bit of a scare. Forecast said slight chance of scattered showers. Wind was blowing NNE about 4-5 and I was trying to sail south to the Masonboro Inlet from the Marina at my wife's uncle's neighborhood. Not much room to tack it was slow going. About an hour and a half of this and the wind died, dead calm. Then it started raining. It was raining so hard that I could only see about 20ft. Then I started seeing lighting due west of me and the wind picked up out of the west. I reefed down to about the size of t-shirt. I have no idea how fast the wind hit but I went almost 2 miles in about 10 minutes on a beam reach with only about 4 sq ft of sail out.

Author:	JollyGreen [ Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ideal conditions are...
I was checking the Beaufort scale out here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale Sorry, I'm not familiar with a lot of nautical stuff, is this the same thing? Looking through those pictures, I can't really see the kinds of conditions I've been out in on Oahu. The winds I like match, force 3 and 4, but the pictures associated with those don't seem to match what I see when I'm out. Today winds were predicted to be 10-12 knots, they might have gone a little above that, but we had plenty of white caps a swell in the 2-3 range with the occasional 5ft. It looks pretty nasty when sailing in it (guys in boats must think we are nuts, ), but the AI seems to handle it fine. I don't plan to go out in anything stronger than that, because I like to leave some room for safety, I'm extra cautious though. One day I'll get my camera to work in typical recent conditions, the closest thing I have for now is one of my first rides, this is honestly what got me hooked. So much fun that day! Winds this day were predicted to be 19mph with gusts to 25 [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtuMsjz_DVM[/youtube] Also, I mostly fish with friends, and it's hard for me to fish in anything stronger than force 4.

Author:	Slaughter [ Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ideal conditions are...
Thanks for that JG. Really enjoyed it.

Author:	KayakingBob [ Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ideal conditions are...
I feel our winds here in Hawaii create slightly larger waves, quicker than what is described in the Beauford scale, but not by an outrageous amount. I find wind waves start here at 10mph, but given just a mile or two of fetch, can become at least 2-3 foot wind waves. A probable cause may be that most of our winds either comes from +2000 miles away, or wraps around or comes charging down a volcano which may amplify it's strength.

Author:	DogsLife [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ideal conditions are...
I have sailed my TI in some high winds. When you talk about how well the boat goes you need to consider the point of sail. A TI behaves differently heading into the wind than running down wind. Where you sit also has a lot influence. You do not want to be in the rear seat heading into the wind. At the same time you will drink a lot of water in the front seat. The bow kicks up a lot of spray. Running down wind the bow will start to dive. Move to the back seat. TI does well in strong winds. The SECRET is: reef early. Wind fetch is only one part of the puzzle. Study wave patterns, angle of the wind to the waves. Try changing your course and see how the boat behaves...

Author:	ElementAI [ Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ideal conditions are...
Yee Haw!!! What fun. Can't wait for the water to warm up!!

Author:	JollyGreen [ Tue May 03, 2011 11:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ideal conditions are...
Finally got out with the gopro and some wind, here is a clip from our latest sail, sorry there is no music or much effort put in. The winds were reasonable 10-20, but with the swell and whatever else was going on it made the sea state weird, we didn't stay out long, for safety. What force level would you classify this as? [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV_l4PJzNp0[/youtube]

Author:	Chekika [ Tue May 03, 2011 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ideal conditions are...
JG, I'll take a guess: 12-14 mph (10.4-12.1 kts) Keith

Author:	whosyerbob [ Tue May 03, 2011 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ideal conditions are...
We took our TI in some wild weather last fall; it was forecast for 20+ knots, then we found a buoy reading of 30 knots, then some friends of ours that were out at the same time clocked sustained winds of 30 knots and a top recorded gust of 37.4 knots. Here's the video: [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSVfZhK90_E[/youtube] And here's the blog entry... For us, ideal conditions are anything safe enough for us to sail in. We go out in pretty much everything less than 30 knots, so long as there isn't lightning, thunder, hail or waterspouts.

Author:	JollyGreen [ Tue May 03, 2011 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ideal conditions are...
Nice video and sailing! Crazy I don't know about you guys, but I think we should come up with a new scale based on how many times you wrap the main sheet around your hand. Light to no wind its limp dangling around in the boat or overboard medium wind I keep it in my hand high wind I wrap 2 or 3 times and I keep it tight and ready to ease the main for gusts ....

Author:	Slaughter [ Tue May 03, 2011 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ideal conditions are...
It’s hard to estimate wind speeds from video clips JG, but I’d agree with Keith at around the 12 knot mark. I'm sure though that the swell you experienced was a lot bigger than what we are seeing ! We have had long debates in the past over how to try to duplicate realistic video clips. They always seem to look lame compared to what was actually experienced. Camera height above the water, camera lense type ( wide or telephoto ), camera movement etc all seem to play their part in enhancing or distorting reality. I am trialling a gimble mount for my camera with mixed success. Basically the camera stays level at all times and the AI rocks and rolls into and out of view while the horizon stays horizontal in the center of the picture. Well that’s the theory. Getting it to work consistently is a challenge but I hope to post a clip in the next few days. I've posted this before but this was one of my first sails and video clips, and still one of the fastest I've done to date. It was about 25-28 knots from memory with a fetch of about 2 kms. At 1min 55secs it's still the closest I've come to going over. I'm sure if I'd have had the tramps on the clip would have been a bit more spectacular. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur81BkdsVeE[/youtube]

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