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| sank my AI in Ste-Catherine Sound http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=34794 |
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| Author: | renepotvin [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | sank my AI in Ste-Catherine Sound |
It's on my blog at http://miami2montreal.com My AI was doing its normal pitching into every wave. That was while going into the wind before reaching the sound. Once at the edge of the sound I had a side wind. The waves were maybe 2 to 4 feet, the wind around 20 to 25 mph with some faster gusts. I got to the middle island alright but during the second part of the crossing my boat got characteristically sluggish and I noticed that my back hatch was permanently underwater. From that point it took about five minutes for the hull to fill entirely. I floated on my outriggers and managed to finish the crossing. The fact that the boat cannot go over any waves is a security concern. It's a real pity that the newer models have not addressed that problem. It's all cute and all on a short day close to shore but it limits the range of the boat quite a bit. Before Crossing Port Royal Sound I will make sure that the weather is really nice. It is not a hatch problem, it's a design problem. You cannot as the hatches to make up for the way the kayak handles heavy weather. The line holes are probably to blame also. Again it's a design problem, sealing is not the answer. Otherwise the boat handles big water with enough ease. As anyone installed a bilge pump yet? I think I really need one. Go check out the blog for more info. |
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| Author: | mmiller [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sank my AI in Ste-Catherine Sound |
There are guys doing much longer trips fully loaded and similar rough water with the AI (btw... exceeds our recommended use in wind speed and open water), so I suspect you have a specific leak issue that is correctable. There are plenty of posts in these forums about how to correct this sort of thing. The control lines have o-rings inside the tubes, so that has not been a real source of leaks in many years. |
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| Author: | fishman-rd [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sank my AI in Ste-Catherine Sound |
As a precaution might want to consider a cheap water alarm rigged inside the hull.. http://www.amazon.com/Rialco-84010-Floo ... B000G1ME8E |
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| Author: | stringy [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sank my AI in Ste-Catherine Sound |
Rene, If the drain bung wasn't loose, with such a large quantity of water in the hull I'd suspect a hull crack. The first place I'd be inspecting closely is the front drivewell ledge, especially around the area of the plastic button.  A hairline crack there will open under pedaling pressure. The other problem area would be around the scuppers where the cart may have caused some damage. |
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| Author: | renepotvin [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sank my AI in Ste-Catherine Sound |
Nice, cracked hulls on a plastic kayak... are they made of celluloid? It sure is a confidence booster! I don't have any water in the hull after leaving the AI in the water for three days... Also, I have had water only in rough seas. My error was to not empty the boat just before entering the sound. In any case, in 25 years, I haven't seen something like this. My Ocean kayak always went over the waves for some reason. |
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| Author: | ChaosDave [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sank my AI in Ste-Catherine Sound |
gotta be your bow hatch. Its weird some we have 2 AI's one never gets water in it the other will get a few litres in heavy weather and after some testing its all the bow hatches fault. |
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| Author: | Chekika [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sank my AI in Ste-Catherine Sound |
CD, I don't think it is his bow hatch (I have 2 AIs and the bow hatches do not leak!) Also, Rene did our 70-mile Chokoloskee to Flamingo camp-sailing trip this year and didn't complain about leaking. The bow hatch will leak if you distort it by placing something large and hard under shock cords. This distorts the hatch cover and causes leakeage. The other time the bow hatch can leak is if your bow is so full of gear that the gear causes some back pressure from the inside (upwards pressure on the cover), which, again, compromises the hatch seal. Of course, if the seal is compromised for some reason (a rat chewed a 6-inch section of mine--still does not leak), it can leak. René, you are doing great! René, take very good care of those T-n-Seal hatches—you must keep them clean, and be sure to push the cover down after you twist the handle to close them. They often don’t seat tightly. The T-n-S hatches are another area Hobie needs to address. Also, you may need to get some silicone grease (Home Depot in plumbing area). Clean the large rubber O-ring, and then lube it with a light coating of grease. Do not use other lubricants, which can damage the ring. Finally, check to be sure the screws around the T-n-S hatches are tight. On the topic of riding over waves and bow diving: One of our Flamingo to Chokoloskee trips, we had strong following winds and lots of bow diving viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&hilit=epic&start=90 Scroll down to Flamingo to Chokoloskee, Jan 13-18, 2010. I discussed the bow-diving as a function of boat design, and then moved the “bow diving” conversation to a separate thread, where we had a very spirited discussion (unfriendly at times.) Some people are strongly opposed to changing the design of the AI—even the amas—to reduce diving. http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=20589 The one solution that caught the attention of a number of people, including ChaosDave, is an add-on wave deflector. A serious thread about an add-on wave deflector can be found at: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=20672 I like the add-on wave-deflector (and spray deflector?) on the BatBoat that NOHUHU has been discussing. René, good luck the rest of your trip! Keith |
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| Author: | georeubs [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sank my AI in Ste-Catherine Sound |
René, I read your blog, and I’m excited for you! Perseverance will win the day… or the trip in this case. You’re doing what I’ve only dreamed about for years. As for your kayak sinking, I’m glad to hear you and the boat made it out of “the salt” alive. Have you considered getting some kayak flotation bags? I’ve recommended them to others on this forum, as I consider them a must-have for these boats. They might seem expensive, but you can get two for about 2% of the overall cost of the boat itself… that’s actually pretty cheap considering they could save your gear, your boat, and your life. The float bags come in different sizes, are inflatated by mouth, are easily secured inside the boat, and are surprisingly tough.  I look forward to your next blog post, and wish ya all the best on your great adventure. |
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| Author: | hollgi [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sank my AI in Ste-Catherine Sound |
Here's an article about how I put a bilge pump in my AI. http://yakass.net/articles/safetynav/319-electrical-bilge-pump-for-a-hobie-adventure-island |
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| Author: | georeubs [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sank my AI in Ste-Catherine Sound |
Hollgi, Great article on the bilge pump. I always carry a hand-operated bilge pump in addition to having flotation bags clipped in the bow & stern. Really, BOTH ought to be considered standard equipment (along with a host of other items). |
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| Author: | renepotvin [ Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sank my AI in Ste-Catherine Sound |
Thanks for the tips. I am asking a lot from this boat. Really, some of the stuff I get into is fierce. The combination of 4 to 6 foot waves with a frequency of less than 5 seconds that meets swell and contrary tidal currents can create seriously hazardous conditions for any boat. I've had the AI dive so deep that I've had to hold stuff and myself on the boat and then a big waves sends you even deeper. The pitching is a security problem because I don't always get nice choices. Sometimes waiting an extra tide or an extra day is not to my liking and I'm willing to take a bath. Unfortunately the boat fills really fast as soon as it's underwater. I don't mean a little underwater or a little trashing. I mean scary diving and trashing. I've cleaned the hatches and done a lot of tests. I finally elected to duck tape the back hatch. It gives me quite a bit more water resistance. Lately, the boat has been sent into the trees by the tidal wave created by a passing supertanker on the Savannah River. http://miami2montreal.wordpress.com/201 ... d-my-boat/ I bent one of the arms and unbent it to a working shape. I've been sailing on it without incident. This boat is taking quite a beating   I will surely install a bilge pump. IMO it's just too dangerous to not have one if you plan long crossings. |
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| Author: | Chekika [ Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sank my AI in Ste-Catherine Sound |
That bent aka definitely qualifies as "best in class" trashing. Sealing the back hatch sounds like a good idea. I still think that is where most of the water comes in. I'm thinking of replacing it (the rear T-n-S hatch cover) with a British-type, sea kayak, friction-seal hatch cover. Your bilge pump--is that going to be manual? If you are flooded out, an electrical bilge pump could be problematic. What long crossings are you planning on doing where a bilge pump might be necessary? I'm enjoying your blog, René. You have to be careful about staying too long in nice places, you might never leave. Keith |
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| Author: | renepotvin [ Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sank my AI in Ste-Catherine Sound |
Charleston is one of those sticky places. I'm staying here for a week. Hell I may stay even longer, what a town! I'm going to install a tube that I will be able to fit to my hand pump. Since I have many weeks to go an electrical solution would simply be impractical. The back hatch could be fitted with a truly sealed version. In any case, it should be more elevated. I don't trust the sealed cable ports either. |
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| Author: | DogsLife [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sank my AI in Ste-Catherine Sound |
Rene, I am also enjoying your Blog. Are you aware that Charleston is having a East Coast Canoe and Kayak Festival this weekend??? Some Watertribe members should be attending there. You might generate a lot of interest and followers if you show up there with your beat-up boat. I believe Hobie should be there and they might be able to help you with the boat. On the rear round hatch: First I make sure that the O-Ring has plenty of Silicone Grease on it. Then to keep sand and water off I use Duct Tape over the joint. The O-Ring does a good job keeping normal water out. It is the beating waves that get past. The handle also has a seal... Which way are you going once you get to Virginia??? Chesapeake Bay or the Ocean side barrier islands??? |
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| Author: | ELM [ Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sank my AI in Ste-Catherine Sound |
Chekika, sorry but I have to disagree with you and support ChaosDave in regard to some of the water entering through the front hatch. My AI has always taken on a considerable amount of water, and "part" of the issue was without any doubt, water coming through the front bow hatch. I removed the front hatch, removed the protective edge dressing/seal, then spread a large doubled plastic garbage bag and fixed it in place over the hole by replacing the protective edge dressing/seal. All this was done inside a dry shed, with no rain on the day. After 6 hours on the water and winds between 15 and 25 knots. When I pulled my AI to the shore, the plastic bag under my bow hatch had roughly 2" of water sitting in it. I have also had drybags in the front hatch, for curiosity (again) I put some old newspaper over the top of the drybags and guess what, by time the trip was half way, and I opened the front hatch to get to the bags, at least 1/3 of the paper was soaked. If the hatch does not leak, then how did the water get there? I do own a 2007 model and that may be my down fall, but as it has been said by many others, some AI's appear to have issues, while others do not. I can only say, with two AI's that do not leak, you are one of the lucky ones, and if someone states they are getting water through the front bow hatch, then they probably are. |
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