Hobie Forums
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/

Pulling extra gear behind the AI?
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=36517		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  JollyGreen [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Pulling extra gear behind the AI?
Anyone have any ideas for pulling 20-40lbs of extra gear behind the AI? I only need to go about 1-2 miles. I'm guessing their might be some kind of pool float I could use, but figured it might flip easily or something.

Any ideas?
Author:  Cowsgomoo [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pulling extra gear behind the AI?
A sealed drum maybe or a couple of sealed PVV pipes to make a raft. I think anything towed behind will creat a fair bit of drag though. 1-2 miles I guess you could live with it.

What about a couple of drybags/ drums lashed down to tramps? Or are they full already?
Author:  augaug [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pulling extra gear behind the AI?
Does your AI have trampolines? That's the easiest way to add space to an AI. Otherwise, what about some type of cheapy inflatable dinghy?
Author:  Trinomite [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pulling extra gear behind the AI?
Hmm I've been thinking about training my English Springer Spaniel to swim aft of me with a load in his teeth.....err maybe not.

Check this out:
http://www.nbcanoe.com/index.php?main_p ... fb2958acaa

In my own opinion, get a cheap open inflatable kayak (check the Innova line of really well built Kayaks, [I own a Sunny] and have travelled in it for hundreds of miles without a single air leak]), and make sure you use a stretchy nylon rope to absorb the 'stop and go' action when you tow.
With a rubber duckie, no worries, although having a fiberglas bomb on my ass in a following sea could make my hair get more grey than it already is.....

Scaaary, Scary stuff, boys and girls
Trinomite
Author:  Trinomite [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pulling extra gear behind the AI?
Oh I forgot to add:
All cruising Innovas have an aluminum fin to greatly add in keeping your tow in track to you.
Without a fin, you'll find your tow drifting all over hell's half acre.
I used to tow a 9' dinghy behind my 27' cruiser. I got so pissed off at it I almost used my Very Pistol on it. A friend suggested I lower the outboard motor just slightly to keep the bottom of the leg coursing through the water..
Problem solved (and I saved a flare) lol

Regards
Trinomite
Author:  Cowsgomoo [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pulling extra gear behind the AI?
And watch your rudder when you stop...
:D
Author:  Trinomite [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pulling extra gear behind the AI?
Yupper Doodles. I used the standard that if I was getting wash over the bow, I attached a drogue to the !@#$% dinghy.
Author:  Roadrunner [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pulling extra gear behind the AI?
JollyGreen wrote:
Anyone have any ideas for pulling 20-40lbs of extra gear behind the AI?
It is most efficient if you can stow it on board. There are lots of places to stash gear (as long as you can still operate the mainsheet if sailing):
Image

If you have to tow, it is much better to float your cargo on the water than drag it through the water. The towing position on your wake makes a difference as to how efficiently it tows. Here, the second position is much better (in the first pic the boat sits on the back side of a swell):
Image Image

Your tow vehicle doesn't have to be fancy. IMO flat bottomed rides better than displacement hulls (as long as it's not plowing). Again, the second position is much better:
Image Image

Your GPS or speedometer will show you the best position. 8)
Author:  fusioneng [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pulling extra gear behind the AI?
JollyGreen:
We have a TI and quite often have alot of gear with us, we're scuba divers and use the TI as a dive platform, By the time you get all the dive gear and a couple tanks each on board with two people it gets pretty loaded down, We lash the tanks to the AKA bars and pile the regulators, BC's, and dive bags (all tied down of course) to the tramps and off we go, sometimes 5-6 miles out to sea. When we have more divers I will typically lash one or two of our other hobies (or any kayak for that matter) between the hull and the AMA's so the three rear passengers sit side by side whilst I am pedaling my butt off trying to get us out. Basically pulling the extra Kayaks does drag me down a little, but if we have a steady wind we get out there with no problems. I think the trick is to keep the boats from touching each other, and keep the other yaks running straight. What we do is tie the bow of the Revolution to a V line on the TI going from the front AKA brace (near the hull) and to the bow padeye on the revo, then to the metal padeye in the center of the AMA or the tubular part of the rear AKA where it goes into the AMA (it's actually more of an L shape because the line tied to the front AKA brace takes all the load, the one tied to the padeye on the ama just keeps the bow of the revo centered (no major load on the shear pin on the AKA brace doing it this way). The front of the Revo ends up just even with the rear AKA (if it's not too wavy we sometimes tuck the Revo under the rear AKA), we then either hold the boats apart by hand for short distances or tie a bungy line to the rear padeye on the rear of the AMA and then to the rear lift handle on the TI with stretchy line so the boats don't come in contact in the waves. With a 4th diver we add a second hobie to the other side. We call it a party barge I'm sure something similar could be rigged on an AI. We are actually in Key West for a couple weeks right now, and if it hadn't rained today we would have been out diving. The nice thing about using the hobies is if the wind dies we can have 4 people all pedaling. Also when tied together the revo's are stable out at sea loaded down with the diver and his diving gear.
If it were me I would just get the optional tramps (if you don't have them already) and lay your extra gear on the tramps (lashed down of course), I think they are good for over 200 lbs (we walk on ours all the time), If you don't overload the entire boat (max weight) you should be fine, if you get too heavy just start adding revolutions like I do as needed (or a cheap $150 yak or boogie board). Our friends have cheap inflatable yaks that I think were less than $150 that they keep in the trunk of their car, we plan to tie them onto our party barge to go diving next week.
Bob
Author:  Trinomite [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pulling extra gear behind the AI?
I saw your pics on a perfectly calm surface. May I suggest that you add a 3 foot white capped wave to those great pictures as you are traveling downwind.
In that case if you have a load in tow that is just dying to over take your base craft depending on the mass of the craft, the tow speed and the wind dynamics; it could be problematic.
The worst condition is an outgoing/incoming tide with an opposing strong wind in the opposing direction.
The 'chop' or confused waves can ruin your day as you could end up 'wearing' your tow.
This is one of the worst fears of tug boat operators that ply the west coast of Canada in areas that have a standard 12 knot current near Campbell River, BC, Canada
Regards
Trinomite
Author:  JollyGreen [ Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pulling extra gear behind the AI?
Hey guys, thanks for all the ideas and dive info! Sounds fun taking the AI/TI out as a dive platform!

Basically, my friend got me into kiteboarding, the best place to learn is out on a sandbar. I have a friend willing to help, but our weight on the AI is a little under 350. If I add an 8lb anchor, kite, board, harness, food &water, I'm guessing we would be close to 375lbs. I was hoping there might be an easy way to pull the extra stuff behind us?

I guess some cheap inflatable kayak or raft might be best
Author:  Trinomite [ Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pulling extra gear behind the AI?
Hiyas Jolly
I took a closer look at the Kayak Kaboose. It's a well designed system that uses a sort of fixed bar to avoid the dreaded tow overtake in following seas.

Check out this their gallery page.
http://www.kayakkaboose.com/gallery.html

It seems to be be designed for Sit Inside Kayaks and means some serious hardware mods to attach the tow bar onto the rear deck of the lead vessel.

I mentioned this as it I don't want to judge any product without proper research.

This very lightweight package is made in Ontario, Canada at the cost of $849. Shipping costs, taxes, and Duty charges added could make this a pretty expensive solution for the US.

There is a photo of this pod being used on the Kaboose website behind a Standup Paddle board. Great idea, as SUP is taking off like a rocket in popularity.

On another thought, I have a Sevylor Inflatable SUP which could be used as a towable if the load was low and totally waterproofed. If it gets rough you can always strap the board with the load onto your akas (or tramps)

http://www.sevylor.com/Samoatrade-Stand ... 29C43.aspx

I've considered using this board as a 'dinghy' for the AI if I go back to Kayak Camping and anchor the AI. (beaches are quite rare on our rocky coast). The board can also be partially deflated to save you the room to carry a Therm-A-Rest.

Use any Inflatable SUP with your load in Waterproof Bags, run webbing straps around the entire board and load. At 12 psi max this board can be as solid as a rock (excuse me GM), and is used a lot by SUP river runners (crazy dudes) lol. The board has a 4" rocker which keeps it from nosediving and can hold 250 lbs. If you properly balance the load it should work for you.

Thanks for reading my ramblings :wink:
Regards
Author:  Roadrunner [ Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pulling extra gear behind the AI?
Trinomite wrote:
It's a well designed system that uses a sort of fixed bar to avoid the dreaded tow overtake in following seas.
If you're towing in a following sea, it's SOP to simply drop your tow back to the next swell cycle, and again adjust the line for best towing (usually to keep in phase).

Trinomite, let me suggest a book called Piloting, Seamanship and Small boat Handling by C.F. Chapman, considered by most to be the Bible of seamanship. I think you'll gain some excellent tips on how to tow your dingy without getting rammed or having unnecessary stability problems. Also note the section on navigating problem inlets (which you seem to have there). The advice that I gave earlier here is confirmed in Chapman's as well.

JollyGreen, if you're towing for a short distance at moderate speed, you might find that slinging your tow line over your right shoulder is very effective -- should give easy control, better rudder response immediate access and some shock absorption without having to use a bridle to avoid hanging up on the rudder, etc. If there are any seas or chop, you can add a shock cord to your line as shown here:
Image
8)
Author:  Trinomite [ Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pulling extra gear behind the AI?
Roadrunner
I loved your pictures. I sincerely hope I did not offend you, m8.

Yes I have read C. F. Chapman's tome many, many years ago.
Also keep in mind I have over 30 years worth of weekends to have perfected my skills on various vessels as crew or as the owner of my own boats. That also includes adjusting my tow line to catch the right wave as I saw it.

I have modified 2 kayaks, a double sit inside hardshell with a schooner downwind rig and a retrofit of my own design for a single V shaped sail for an Innova Inflatable. I also used to run a yacht repair service after people in the marina where I was at saw the work on my own boat and hired me to reno their yachts/ Trust me, Roadrunner: I've been dar dun dat, over the last 59 years.

However, thank you Roadrunner for reminding me sometimes to go back to the basics.

I'm not sure where you have sailed or sail, but the North Pacific here can be a biatch on a rotten day.
Confused seas here are common due to strong tidal currents.

The dinghy story was true from a long time ago, It was meant to put some humor on this post.

I certainly won't make that mistake again, Bro.

Peace Roadrunner
Trinomite
Author:  Trinomite [ Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pulling extra gear behind the AI?
Roadrunner wrote:
JollyGreen, if you're towing for a short distance at moderate speed, you might find that slinging your tow line over your right shoulder is very effective -- should give easy control, better rudder response immediate access and some shock absorption without having to use a bridle to avoid hanging up on the rudder, etc. If there are any seas or chop, you can add a shock cord to your line as shown here:
Image
8)


Roadrunner
I reread your reply again....
If I ever saw an accident waiting to happen that would be it. We are not talking about a nice sunny day with no wind or wave action. At NO time should anyone attach a tow line to themselves whilst towing a vessel, especially a tow vessel with load)
What would happen if the towed boat hits an underwater snag or a 'deadhead'? You could literally get pulled right out of your boat if you are under sail!

That is not rocket science. It is called common sense.
Regards
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/