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Recieved my used TI today. Now for the bad news.
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=53842		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  CR Yaker [ Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Recieved my used TI today. Now for the bad news.
I was supposed to receive a 2014 TI used by a dealer as a public demo (not official demo serial number), scratches and all but fully operational. Paid $3700 plus $70 shipping to a my nearby international shipper. Cost me $658 to get it here to me in Costa Rica.
Received it fully wrapped, the only thing I didn't like was the rudder laying over covered with wrapping, no Styrofoam or other protection. As I was soon to find the Gudgeon broken off at the top, doesn't look like any damage to the hull (don't know if this happened in transportation or was already there, after seeing the lack of condition of the rest of the kayak), operational, but not safe, needs to be replaced.
Everything else fine on it's voyage to Costa Rica.
Problems:
0. No rudder pins
1. Two sets of mirage pedals, but one is a standard set.
2. Two seats, but one of the seats is a non pegged older version, look like the paddle version.
3. No cassette plugs
4. No buckets
5. Sail is missing the two smaller battens, and all three of the caps.
6. Missing a bow/stern handles (2)
7. The mast bearing plate looks shot, only 3 bearings in it. Is there supposed to be a cover below this plate on the Ti? It's wide open. On the AI it's covered.
8. The Aka bag with the aka extensions was totally corroded shut. Looks like nobody had opened it for awhile. I couldn't get it to unzip even after trying corrosion X. Had to slice the bag open with a utility knife.
9. This is the big one, it's an early 2013 (serial number ends in L213) I take it the 2 is for the second month of production for the production year 2013. Warranty?? It's over 2 years old.

Obviously I'm not too happy about it, I expected some wear and tear, but for a dealer to send me a used kayak in such fashion just blows my mind, (especially since I was assured it would be a fully operational 2014 with all working parts, other than a water bottle) I do have recourse having paid with a credit card. I will test the kayak for leaks tomorrow and any other issues.
Are both scupper hole sets supposed to be reinforced on the 2013? This 2013 is not reinforced in the rear scupper holes.

First I will contact the dealer and give him the facts and see what he says.
What do you think I should do or ask for??
The good news is it's a fantastic kayak, Tandem Island. All can be fixed (so far).

Thanks
Mark
Author:  xdcammer [ Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recieved my used TI today. Now for the bad news.
[quote=
What do you think I should do or ask for??
/quote]

A 2015 model. :lol:




!. Seat plugs
2. Sail battons and caps
3.Cassettes
4. Handles
5. 24 new Delrin bearings
6. A set of ST turbo fins and masts
7. Not sure about the bearing plate, bearings should be in a race tho, top/ bottom
8. I wouldn't worry about the Aka bag, but, see if he'll throw in a couple of rudder pins.
9. Oh, and a new gudgeon with bolts.

At least that will get you on the water don't worry too much about the reinforced scupper holes, just remember to use the trolley pin and all is good. 2014 scupper holes are reinforced.

Bit of a disappointment for you.

XD
Author:  tonystott [ Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recieved my used TI today. Now for the bad news.
I totally agree with xdcammer. They have clearly (and deliberately) screwed you over so badly, that just correcting individual shortcomings goes nowhere near making things right. Do NOT accept this cynical attempt to hive off odds and ends on the basis that you are too far away to complain.

Nothing less than a brand new 2015 delivered without costs and no-cost removal of the pile of junk you received should be acceptable, AND I hope Hobiecat reams the culprit.

This situation stands out like dogs balls because it is so far below Hobie's normal standard of behaviour.
Author:  CR Yaker [ Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recieved my used TI today. Now for the bad news.
Thanks guys for your support. Although a 2015 would be nice, let's just put this in realistic perspective. First of all, I was saving a few bucks getting a used TI from a dealer who was clearing out inventory. Fair enough, obviously who I dealt with and who was responsible for seeing the kayak prepared was far apart. Note, this isn't Hobie's fault, their service is outstanding to say the least. No this is an issue of a dealer not getting their facts straight on an overseas used deal.
I think this all can be rectified to my satisfaction and hopefully the dealers, by being compensated for my lesser than agreed upon purchase. What that amount should be is what I'm looking for in feed back.
My thought is that since it's out of warranty (I know, Hobie is still good about pro rating on older models), and as of now, it's going to cost me about $500 - $700 to bring the boat up to standards. I'm thinking, $1000 off for older model and $500 for parts. $1500 total returned (as long as the kayak has no other issues on testing tomorrow). Do you think I'm going to far in my estimates?
Thanks
Mark
Author:  xdcammer [ Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recieved my used TI today. Now for the bad news.
tonystott wrote:
Nothing less than a brand new 2015 delivered without costs


Yeah, like that's going to happen. Sorry but call me cynical.

When I sold my last 2 AI's the buyers got a full brief on the boat, all receipts of accessories and mods, original manual and all the original spares. The hull was like it just came out of the show room and had custom decals applied. I would never buy a hull that I hadn't seen or known on spec.

A 2015 hull from Ocean Side to Costa? Damn, you could sail that sucker down from there!
Meanwhile, we're sitting down here waiting for the ILWU and the PMA to get their S@#& together. The longest time I wasn't fishing out of a yak was when I was in Baghdad for 8 months, and it's slowly creeping up to that mark………. Hmmmmmm, sorry I'm whinging, it's a 1st world problem.

I sincerely hope for you the hulls integrity is in tact.

Good luck and let us know, XD.

(I'll pull my head in now)
Author:  Tom Kirkman [ Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recieved my used TI today. Now for the bad news.
I don't think they owe you a 2015 model, but they do owe you what they promised and what you paid for. Any deficiencies on the boat you received should be corrected and any missing, damaged or incorrect parts should be replaced with the correct pieces.
Author:  tonystott [ Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recieved my used TI today. Now for the bad news.
I obviously differ in my opinion compared to xdcammer's, but I maintain that this is not merely a case of a few misunderstandings; that dealer has screwed you over without question, and has failed to meet the terms of sale in many areas:-
Quote:
0. No rudder pins
1. Two sets of mirage pedals, but one is a standard set.
2. Two seats, but one of the seats is a non pegged older version, look like the paddle version.
3. No cassette plugs
4. No buckets
5. Sail is missing the two smaller battens, and all three of the caps.
6. Missing a bow/stern handles (2)
7. The mast bearing plate looks shot, only 3 bearings in it. Is there supposed to be a cover below this plate on the Ti? It's wide open. On the AI it's covered.
8. The Aka bag with the aka extensions was totally corroded shut. Looks like nobody had opened it for awhile. I couldn't get it to unzip even after trying corrosion X. Had to slice the bag open with a utility knife.
9. This is the big one, it's an early 2013 (serial number ends in L213) I take it the 2 is for the second month of production for the production year 2013. Warranty?? It's over 2 years old.


Of course this is not Hobie's fault, but 100% the dealers.

To me the question is simple, Would the dealer have provided the used boat in that condition if you were taking delivery face to face? I think the answer is obvious, and why you should not just "bend over and take it"

OK, so maybe my suggestion of your receiving a brand new 2015 model is over the top, but that dealer owes you big time to fully compensate for each of the above shortcomings, (less those noted in writing in the sales paperwork). Misleading you on the hull age is particularly unacceptable, even if Hobie's general warranty behaviour of generous. In your case, I would be insisting on getting written confirmation from Hobie that you have a remaining warranty period of a 2014 hull if that hull model is specified in the sales document.

Good luck receiving proper treatment from the dealer so your TI ownership enjoyment is soon up where it should be!
Author:  mmiller [ Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recieved my used TI today. Now for the bad news.
"213" would be 2013 model built in 2012.

Send an email to [email protected] with your purchase details and what dealer this was from. I think our sales VP should know about this one. She can follow up with their sales rep.
Author:  tonystott [ Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recieved my used TI today. Now for the bad news.
Great reaction Matt, not unexpected LOL
Author:  CR Yaker [ Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recieved my used TI today. Now for the bad news.
Thanks Matt, will do. I would get ahold of the general manager I dealt with, seems to be a good guy. But this deal is so far off the mark that I think I'll just let you guys handle it.
Mark

P.S. The good news is there was no apparent hull leaks after 3 hours on the water today.
Author:  xdcammer [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recieved my used TI today. Now for the bad news.
That's great news mate.
Enjoy your boat with all the parts you should have received.

XD
Author:  mmiller [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recieved my used TI today. Now for the bad news.
CR Yaker wrote:
But this deal is so far off the mark that I think I'll just let you guys handle it.


Unfortunately, this has to be handled by you (they buyer) and the selling party. Hobie Cat can possibly place some pressure on a dealer... but can not "handle" this for you. Dealers who sell Hobie Cat products are not Hobie owned or managed. These are independent businesses.
Author:  CR Yaker [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recieved my used TI today. Now for the bad news.
mmiller wrote:
CR Yaker wrote:
But this deal is so far off the mark that I think I'll just let you guys handle it.


Unfortunately, this has to be handled by you (they buyer) and the selling party. Hobie Cat can possibly place some pressure on a dealer... but can not "handle" this for you. Dealers who sell Hobie Cat products are not Hobie owned or managed. These are independent businesses.


Understood Matt. I sent the dealer an email today outlining the problems. I'm sure a resolution for each can be solved.
Thanks again,
Mark
Author:  CR Yaker [ Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recieved my used TI today. Now for the bad news.
No replies so far. Looks like I need to take matters into my own hands here for now. Going to call my CC company tomorrow, Friday, if I don't hear from this dealer. Would hate to do such a thing but I have no other guaranteed choices of recourse. Would rather owe than be owed in this case.
Mark
Author:  TI_Tom [ Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recieved my used TI today. Now for the bad news.
That sucks Mark. I hope everything is resolved soon.
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