Hobie Forums :: View topic - 2015 Island upgrades -At what cost to their versatility?

Is car- topping the AI impractical? I wouldn't think so.

I know just from the dimensions of the ama that I will no longer be able to fit them inside my vehicle.
Does the extra weight and bulk mean that getting the hull onto the roof is too difficult? I have friends, 52 & 63 yrs old, who lift their TI hull up on top of their pickup racks. They also, separately, lash their TI amas onto the roof rack.

Any opinions gratefully received!

I car-top my current A.I. onto my small Kia Rio hatchback and it's probably already on the borderline of being too heavy.

I have plenty of dents in the roof which occurred when I was man-handling it into position. I can only imagine that another
12kgs of mass would cave-in the roof altogether.

Anyway, regardless of the anticipated benefits of the new A.I., here's my take on the things I'm not so keen on:

1: Weight - it was already a heavy lump, now it will be even more so.
2: Length (although it's only about 25cm longer, that makes it about 15cm too long for my garage :-)

3: The seat - while it's certainly better than the old hobie-supplied seat, I feel it's too complex for
its own good. If it collapses/fails while out at sea in rough conditions, what can you do? With the old hobie
bum-soaker, at least it was pretty-much fool-proof. If you need to ditch the seat altogether (in an
emergency) you're left with a flat, rectangular seat-well, which would make things interesting. The old
seat well was ergonomically shaped, so you could at least still sit, paddle and pedal - although not
comfortably. I'm just playing devil's advocate here, I'd still have a go at retro-fitting one to my boat!

As has been mentioned before, the high seat, along with the higher COG of the hull may make it
tricky to take the new A.I. out in kayak-mode. The greater freeboard and therefore windage may
also work against the boat in kayak mode.

4: The rear-well, just like the one on the Revolution - which was one of the few things I disliked about my Revo.
The 'ski-jump' rear caused me to loose a few fix and other bits and pieces off the back of the boat. The one
on the 'old' A.I. was just about perfect.
5: The centreboard - just one more gadget to go wrong/require maintenance.
The simplicity of the old dagger-board was genius.
6: The look of the front-end - ugly :-)

These are just my opinions, I've never seen or sat in a new A.I., so my views may be way-off. So there's
no need for anyone to blow a gasket over them.

Cheers,

Mike.

I car-top my current A.I. onto my small Kia Rio hatchback and it's probably already on the borderline of being too heavy. If possible, I recommend NOT roof topping any kayak that comes out of saltwater. I've rusted out 2 vehicles (Ford Bronco & Toyota 4-Runner) used to roof rack sea kayaks.

I have plenty of dents in the roof which occurred when I was man-handling it into position. I can only imagine that another
12kgs of mass would cave-in the roof altogether. See my comment above.

Anyway, regardless of the anticipated benefits of the new A.I., here's my take on the things I'm not so keen on:

1: Weight - it was already a heavy lump, now it will be even more so. Yes, it is because it has lots more plastic to handle the increased volume almost everywhere. Hopefully, it is strengthened in all the right places. Time will tell.
2: Length (although it's only about 25cm longer, that makes it about 15cm too long for my garage :-)

I must angle my 3 AIs, 3 sea kayaks in my garage. (I've got to sell some boats.)
3: The seat - while it's certainly better than the old hobie-supplied seat, I feel it's too complex for its own good. If it collapses/fails while out at sea in rough conditions, what can you do? Yes, it is complex, but it is not new. It has been around for awhile. Again, Hobie has had experience with this seat.
With the old hobie bum-soaker, at least it was pretty-much fool-proof. If you need to ditch the seat altogether (in an emergency) you're left with a flat, rectangular seat-well, which would make things interesting. I don't see why you would ditch it. It fastens positively to a bar across the front edge of the seat area. Also, it has a clip which fastens it to the back of the seat area. You are sitting in the seat; it is not going anywhere unless you capsize. If that happens, the clip should keep the seat with the boat. In the event of a capsize, keeping the seat may be the least of your worries.

The old seat well was ergonomically shaped, so you could at least still sit, paddle and pedal - although not comfortably. I'm just playing devil's advocate here, I'd still have a go at retro-fitting one to my boat!

As has been mentioned before, the high seat, along with the higher COG of the hull may make it tricky to take the new A.I. out in kayak-mode. The greater freeboard and therefore windage may also work against the boat in kayak mode. Although it could be used in "kayak mode," Hobie is not marketing this aspect.

4: The rear-well, just like the one on the Revolution - which was one of the few things I disliked about my Revo. The 'ski-jump' rear caused me to loose a few fix and other bits and pieces off the back of the boat. The one on the 'old' A.I. was just about perfect. TIs have had this "ski-jump" rear well for some time. I have not heard TI owners complain about it.

5: The centreboard - just one more gadget to go wrong/require maintenance. Yes, but, again, TI owners do not seem to complain about it. Many of these new items are simply adaptations of similar items on the TI. Hopefully they are further improved on the AI 2.

The simplicity of the old dagger-board was genius. Yes, it was, but how many have been lost overboard?

6: The look of the front-end - ugly :-)

I like the looks of the new bow. Call it an ugly duckling if you wish, but if it reduces diving and accepts more gear, I love it.

Bottom line, the AI 2 should give you a drier ride, both outside and in the hull. That alone is a B-I-G plus.

These are just my opinions, I've never seen or sat in a new A.I., so my views may be way-off. So there's no need for anyone to blow a gasket over them.

Cheers,

Mike.

quote="stringy"]Is car- topping the AI impractical? I wouldn't think so.
Stringy, as you probably know, I'm not a fan of roof racking either TI or AI because of probable rust problems. I'm just giving you my opinion in answer to your question. Wait a minute, Stringy. Don't you use a trailer?

Keith[/color][/b]

Author:	stringy [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:	2015 Island upgrades -At what cost to their versatility?
One of the big advantages the Island models have over other craft is their versatility. You can paddle, pedal or sail in trimaran or kayak configuration. The Adventure was a great kayak that became a great trimaran. The TI a great trimaran that was a good kayak despite it's bulk. With the new model changes, the AI has gained considerable bulk, probably making it less of a kayak. As we have yet to see any Downunder I'm interested to hear from owners who have the new models, their thoughts on what they are like as kayaks. Are the new seats too high for kayak use? How much has the extra bulk affected the AI's kayak mode, if at all? Is car- topping the AI impractical? I know just from the dimensions of the ama that I will no longer be able to fit them inside my vehicle. Does the extra weight and bulk mean that getting the hull onto the roof is too difficult? Any opinions gratefully received!

Author:	Roller [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Island upgrades -At what cost to their versatility?
I have a Mitsubishi Triton (L200 in other parts of the world) and I must say I am very concerned about car topping. Due to dimensions not so much the weight

Author:	Chekika [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Island upgrades -At what cost to their versatility?
stringy wrote: Is car- topping the AI impractical? I wouldn't think so. I know just from the dimensions of the ama that I will no longer be able to fit them inside my vehicle. Does the extra weight and bulk mean that getting the hull onto the roof is too difficult? I have friends, 52 & 63 yrs old, who lift their TI hull up on top of their pickup racks. They also, separately, lash their TI amas onto the roof rack. Any opinions gratefully received! Stringy, as you probably know, I'm not a fan of roof racking either TI or AI because of probable rust problems. I'm just giving you my opinion in answer to your question. Wait a minute, Stringy. Don't you use a trailer? Keith

Author:	dpstivers [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Island upgrades -At what cost to their versatility?
I tested my 2015 AI in kayak mode. The ocean was flat that day but some very large boat wakes from different directions really mixed it up. You definitely sit up higher in the new boat and I expected to tip. I was amazed at how stable it actually was.

Author:	mingle [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Island upgrades -At what cost to their versatility?
I car-top my current A.I. onto my small Kia Rio hatchback and it's probably already on the borderline of being too heavy. I have plenty of dents in the roof which occurred when I was man-handling it into position. I can only imagine that another 12kgs of mass would cave-in the roof altogether. Anyway, regardless of the anticipated benefits of the new A.I., here's my take on the things I'm not so keen on: 1: Weight - it was already a heavy lump, now it will be even more so. 2: Length (although it's only about 25cm longer, that makes it about 15cm too long for my garage 3: The seat - while it's certainly better than the old hobie-supplied seat, I feel it's too complex for its own good. If it collapses/fails while out at sea in rough conditions, what can you do? With the old hobie bum-soaker, at least it was pretty-much fool-proof. If you need to ditch the seat altogether (in an emergency) you're left with a flat, rectangular seat-well, which would make things interesting. The old seat well was ergonomically shaped, so you could at least still sit, paddle and pedal - although not comfortably. I'm just playing devil's advocate here, I'd still have a go at retro-fitting one to my boat! As has been mentioned before, the high seat, along with the higher COG of the hull may make it tricky to take the new A.I. out in kayak-mode. The greater freeboard and therefore windage may also work against the boat in kayak mode. 4: The rear-well, just like the one on the Revolution - which was one of the few things I disliked about my Revo. The 'ski-jump' rear caused me to loose a few fix and other bits and pieces off the back of the boat. The one on the 'old' A.I. was just about perfect. 5: The centreboard - just one more gadget to go wrong/require maintenance. The simplicity of the old dagger-board was genius. 6: The look of the front-end - ugly These are just my opinions, I've never seen or sat in a new A.I., so my views may be way-off. So there's no need for anyone to blow a gasket over them. Cheers, Mike.

Hobie Forums http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/

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Author:	Hogman [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Island upgrades -At what cost to their versatility?
mingle wrote: I car-top my current A.I. onto my small Kia Rio hatchback and it's probably already on the borderline of being too heavy. I have plenty of dents in the roof which occurred when I was man-handling it into position. I can only imagine that another 12kgs of mass would cave-in the roof altogether. Anyway, regardless of the anticipated benefits of the new A.I., here's my take on the things I'm not so keen on: 1: Weight - it was already a heavy lump, now it will be even more so. 2: Length (although it's only about 25cm longer, that makes it about 15cm too long for my garage 3: The seat - while it's certainly better than the old hobie-supplied seat, I feel it's too complex for its own good. If it collapses/fails while out at sea in rough conditions, what can you do? With the old hobie bum-soaker, at least it was pretty-much fool-proof. If you need to ditch the seat altogether (in an emergency) you're left with a flat, rectangular seat-well, which would make things interesting. The old seat well was ergonomically shaped, so you could at least still sit, paddle and pedal - although not comfortably. I'm just playing devil's advocate here, I'd still have a go at retro-fitting one to my boat! As has been mentioned before, the high seat, along with the higher COG of the hull may make it tricky to take the new A.I. out in kayak-mode. The greater freeboard and therefore windage may also work against the boat in kayak mode. 4: The rear-well, just like the one on the Revolution - which was one of the few things I disliked about my Revo. The 'ski-jump' rear caused me to loose a few fix and other bits and pieces off the back of the boat. The one on the 'old' A.I. was just about perfect. 5: The centreboard - just one more gadget to go wrong/require maintenance. The simplicity of the old dagger-board was genius. 6: The look of the front-end - ugly These are just my opinions, I've never seen or sat in a new A.I., so my views may be way-off. So there's no need for anyone to blow a gasket over them. Cheers, Mike. I think Hobie do a great job, and have really listened to the majority of users. They have addressed many of the concerns that users have complained about. Personally I hated the old dagger board. Take it all the way out, and then you always had to find somewhere to store it. If you try to bring it up too late it jams. The old AI was a kayak first and they simply added the amas and a sail. It almost seemed to be…. I wonder how this will go… The new one has been geared more to the sailing side rather then a single kayak. The TI was a huge step up in sailing performance, the new AI has now caught up. I think most people will be more than happy with all the changes, and I can almost guarantee that the new AI will be very popular. Bottom line…………There will always be people that don't like the changes. There is a real simple solution Mike, Don't like it………... don't buy one.

Author:	Chekika [ Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Island upgrades -At what cost to their versatility?
mingle wrote: I car-top my current A.I. onto my small Kia Rio hatchback and it's probably already on the borderline of being too heavy. If possible, I recommend NOT roof topping any kayak that comes out of saltwater. I've rusted out 2 vehicles (Ford Bronco & Toyota 4-Runner) used to roof rack sea kayaks. I have plenty of dents in the roof which occurred when I was man-handling it into position. I can only imagine that another 12kgs of mass would cave-in the roof altogether. See my comment above. Anyway, regardless of the anticipated benefits of the new A.I., here's my take on the things I'm not so keen on: 1: Weight - it was already a heavy lump, now it will be even more so. Yes, it is because it has lots more plastic to handle the increased volume almost everywhere. Hopefully, it is strengthened in all the right places. Time will tell. 2: Length (although it's only about 25cm longer, that makes it about 15cm too long for my garage I must angle my 3 AIs, 3 sea kayaks in my garage. (I've got to sell some boats.) 3: The seat - while it's certainly better than the old hobie-supplied seat, I feel it's too complex for its own good. If it collapses/fails while out at sea in rough conditions, what can you do? Yes, it is complex, but it is not new. It has been around for awhile. Again, Hobie has had experience with this seat. With the old hobie bum-soaker, at least it was pretty-much fool-proof. If you need to ditch the seat altogether (in an emergency) you're left with a flat, rectangular seat-well, which would make things interesting. I don't see why you would ditch it. It fastens positively to a bar across the front edge of the seat area. Also, it has a clip which fastens it to the back of the seat area. You are sitting in the seat; it is not going anywhere unless you capsize. If that happens, the clip should keep the seat with the boat. In the event of a capsize, keeping the seat may be the least of your worries. The old seat well was ergonomically shaped, so you could at least still sit, paddle and pedal - although not comfortably. I'm just playing devil's advocate here, I'd still have a go at retro-fitting one to my boat! As has been mentioned before, the high seat, along with the higher COG of the hull may make it tricky to take the new A.I. out in kayak-mode. The greater freeboard and therefore windage may also work against the boat in kayak mode. Although it could be used in "kayak mode," Hobie is not marketing this aspect. 4: The rear-well, just like the one on the Revolution - which was one of the few things I disliked about my Revo. The 'ski-jump' rear caused me to loose a few fix and other bits and pieces off the back of the boat. The one on the 'old' A.I. was just about perfect. TIs have had this "ski-jump" rear well for some time. I have not heard TI owners complain about it. 5: The centreboard - just one more gadget to go wrong/require maintenance. Yes, but, again, TI owners do not seem to complain about it. Many of these new items are simply adaptations of similar items on the TI. Hopefully they are further improved on the AI 2. The simplicity of the old dagger-board was genius. Yes, it was, but how many have been lost overboard? 6: The look of the front-end - ugly I like the looks of the new bow. Call it an ugly duckling if you wish, but if it reduces diving and accepts more gear, I love it. Bottom line, the AI 2 should give you a drier ride, both outside and in the hull. That alone is a B-I-G plus. These are just my opinions, I've never seen or sat in a new A.I., so my views may be way-off. So there's no need for anyone to blow a gasket over them. Cheers, Mike. Keith with my 2¢

Author:	tonystott [ Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Island upgrades -At what cost to their versatility?
Holy crap! The lynch mob is out in force. I can only assume that in the total absence of any experience with the new models, impatience is getting the better of people. I know a guy who used to car-top his TI on a Toyota Troopy. Maybe you need to eat more Weeties for brekky... To suggect that the built-in centreboard is a backward step to a daggerboard and slot is one of the most ludicrous sggestions I have ever read. I cannot believe that the massive extra length of the new AI could make the difference regarding fitting in the garage... As Keith has said, the seat is securely attached, so the comment regarding loss of the seat is moot. I have never noticed any issues with the rear storage area on my TI despite many overnight trips. Nobody has actually tried a new AI in kayak mode, so all comment regarding stability is pure conjecture. Peopl who like the new model will buy it, those who don't won't. Simple

Author:	Hogman [ Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Island upgrades -At what cost to their versatility?
WELL SAID KEITH AND TONY.

Author:	matttcoburn [ Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Island upgrades -At what cost to their versatility?
Mingle...i will remove the daggers out of your back and chuck some 100% metho on the stab wounds to prevent infection. Best way to stop the speculation is roll the suckers out for a demo. I'm sure Mingle would consider buying one. Roll 'em out!!

Author:	stringy [ Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Island upgrades -At what cost to their versatility?
Well I thought Mingle raised some pretty good points. Remember the original questions I had related to kayak mode use. A built in DB is a disadvantage if you are in kayak mode. It's extra weight that has no benefit if you are not sailing. Windage from a bulkier hull is also a potential disadvantage, as is a higher CoG seat. I was hoping someone who has one of these '15 models already could enlighten us as to their kayak mode potential.

Author:	Slaughter [ Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Island upgrades -At what cost to their versatility?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. What is ugly or heavy for some is stylish an light for others. I'll be taking one for a test drive and I hope I can report my honest opinion without everyone getting uptight.

Author:	stringy [ Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Island upgrades -At what cost to their versatility?
Chekika wrote: quote="stringy"]Is car- topping the AI impractical? I wouldn't think so. Stringy, as you probably know, I'm not a fan of roof racking either TI or AI because of probable rust problems. I'm just giving you my opinion in answer to your question. Wait a minute, Stringy. Don't you use a trailer? Keith[/color][/b] Agreed Keith, though if you are carefull rust can be avoided. I car topped my Oasis for a number of years with no problem. Yes, I do mostly use a trailer, but I have car topped the AI often when a trailer wasn't practical such as long distance touring or on a rough/sandy 4WD track. Car topping the AI v1 was easy. The hull would sit on run of the mill roof rack kayak cradles and the ama and everything else went inside the vehicle. To me that was part of the AI v1's versatility. PS - agreed Russ, though I think you left the word 'out' out after with?

Author:	Buckaroo [ Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Island upgrades -At what cost to their versatility?
I'm already getting uptight in anticipation of your report. I appreciate the strong opinions expressed by experienced Island users here. It gives me a lot of information for deciding what is important for my intended use of the boat. I have seen other forums where the social aspect was more important than the informational and strong opinions were not welcome. Sort of makes it something other than a "Forum", in my opinion. cheers ! - Chris

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Author:	stringy [ Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Island upgrades -At what cost to their versatility?
Well said Chris!