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AI control line mods
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=54625		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Scrumpy [ Sun May 03, 2015 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  AI control line mods
Hi, I've a 2015 AI and I'm not loving the position of the cam cleats. I used a TI last year and had the same reservations. After a few trips on the AI I really wanting to change the setup.

I'm looking to move them back towards me and I've seen that people have achieved this before. I'm considering the setup below utilising 20mm nylon block affixed to the hull with a backing plate.

I'm also going to reposition the furling line onto the same block with a pulley mounted to the front bar.

Thoughts????... before I make it a permanent mod.


ImageIMG_1992 by Rob Appleby-Goudberg, on Flickr

ImageIMG_1993 by Rob Appleby-Goudberg, on Flickr

ImageIMG_1994 by Rob Appleby-Goudberg, on Flickr
Author:  colinm [ Thu May 14, 2015 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AI control line mods
Hi Scrumpy
I did a similar mod to my 2012 AI after reading about it on hear. It is a great mod and I thank the person who originally posted it. No more getting the lines tangled in the pedals!

The two things I found when doing it are:
1. Have a good thick spacer under the cleats. When punching the lines down to cleat them off you don't want them too low. On my older boat a 1" thick spacer was fine.
2. You need a block on the front aka bar to get the correct run on the furling line to clear the pedals. I made an adaptor plate and used a couple of the original threaded holes with shorter bolts.

I'll find and upload some photos for you.
Cheers
Colin
Author:  Chekika [ Thu May 14, 2015 7:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AI control line mods
I moved the main sheet cam cleat forward along the coaming on my AI 2. I don't have a problem with the furling line and left that in place. I also angled the cleat to give still better control. I don't have pictures, but you can see the new setup in the video I posted here http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&p=256156#p256156 Scroll to the very bottom of that page to the post, "Test of My Keep-Out Safety Lines." I only did the main sheet because, in strong winds, I found I did not have enough leverage to release the line when it was so far forward on the crossbar. Like Colin, I found that it needs to be raised--when it is so low, it forces you to bang your knuckles cleating the line. It does release easily from the new position and angle.

Keith
Author:  TI_Tom [ Thu May 14, 2015 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AI control line mods
How did you attach the nylon block to the coaming? Are there mounting screws underneath the cam cleats or did you just use longer bolts for the cam cleats a go all the way through the nylon block? Did you put a backing plate on?
Author:  NOHUHU [ Thu May 14, 2015 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AI control line mods
Scrumpy, that location may work great for cockpit sailing, but it will not when you want to hike out. The sheeting angle will be extreme, which introduces new problems.

Locating a swivel cleat there, at least for the mainsheet, will address most of those issues.

Other than that, the closer you move the cleat to yourself, the less leverage you will have. That's a concern for big TI sails, and perhaps for some folks using the the larger 2015 AI sail, though I have not sailed one yet. :cry:
Author:  Chekika [ Thu May 14, 2015 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AI control line mods
TI_Tom wrote:
How did you attach the nylon block to the coaming? Are there mounting screws underneath the cam cleats or did you just use longer bolts for the cam cleats a go all the way through the nylon block? Did you put a backing plate on?

I don't know if you were asking me that question, Tom. I do not have a block under my cam cleat, but I did drill holes through the coaming and placed bolts thru to which I attached nylon lock nuts. No backing plate since the coaming material is strong.

NOHUHU wrote:
Other than that, the closer you move the cleat to yourself, the less leverage you will have. That's a concern for big TI sails, and perhaps for some folks using the larger 2015 AI sail, though I have not sailed one yet.

I did not have real strong winds yesterday, but I didn't notice any problems releasing the sail. I definitely had problems when the cam cleat was on the xbar in strong winds. BTW, you can't move them too close, only about 13.5" closer than the xbar location, because of the centerboard control--on the AI 2, that is.

Keith
Author:  Scrumpy [ Fri May 15, 2015 3:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AI control line mods
Hi NOHUHU, I dont envisage hiking out at the moment, it's very much a fishi ng machine for me, though I may yet leave some of the original cleats up front so I can revert if I feel the need.

I added a Harken block on the outermost cleat fixing on the front bar. A tiny tweak with the dremel tool and it fitted using the original curved base plate making for a very neat tweak.

I have noticed that the hull thickness ahead of the centre board control is aroubd 10mm!, so I wont add a backing place. Throw in the angled hull shape at the point and it results in a very stong area on the yak anyway.
Author:  fusioneng [ Fri May 15, 2015 6:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AI control line mods
Scrumpy:
I like your setup, However if it was me I would leave the original Harkin cleats up on front AKA bar (one on each side of the hull brace (factory position), then just add a second set in the new position. The reason is those cleats mounted up on that cross bar serve double duty, They are primarily for cleating the lines, but their secondary function is to prevent the aka cross bar from sliding left to right under sail load. Early on this was a big problem (and the reason the cleats were mounted where they are (one on each side of the hull mounting bracket)). With the dual setup, it wouldn't take much to run the main line from either position (if you plan to hike out). Of course on the newest generation of boats the AKA brace sliding back and forth may no longer be a problem, and the Harken cleats are pretty pricey, if you watch the bar during heavy sailing and it starts sliding side to side, you can always screw down a couple blocks of aluminum into the original screw holes to prevent the bar from slipping (to save money), but only if it's actually slipping side to side on you, if it's not slipping I wouldn't worry about it, (on my first early 2010 TI with those cleats removed the AKA brace bar would slide side to side 1 inch each way when tacking (what we used to call the " BIG CLUNK", because everytime you tacked there was a huge clunk noise ( I have no idea if AI's had the same problem, I've never been in one, but I suspect they use the exact same design (and components) on both)).
Of course it may no longer be an issue, but may be something to watch and listen for (listen for the 'big clunk', hard to miss (lol)).
Probly all about nothin....
Bob
Author:  colinm [ Fri May 15, 2015 7:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AI control line mods
Hi Scrumpy
Here's some photos of my 2012 AI with the cleats moved as you are thinking of doing.
Image

Image

Best of luck with your mods.
Colin
Author:  colinm [ Fri May 15, 2015 7:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AI control line mods
fusioneng wrote:
Scrumpy:
I like your setup, However if it was me I would leave the original Harkin cleats up on front AKA bar (one on each side of the hull brace (factory position), then just add a second set in the new position. The reason is those cleats mounted up on that cross bar serve double duty, They are primarily for cleating the lines, but their secondary function is to prevent the aka cross bar from sliding left to right under sail load. Early on this was a big problem (and the reason the cleats were mounted where they are (one on each side of the hull mounting bracket)). With the dual setup, it wouldn't take much to run the main line from either position (if you plan to hike out). Of course on the newest generation of boats the AKA brace sliding back and forth may no longer be a problem, and the Harken cleats are pretty pricey, if you watch the bar during heavy sailing and it starts sliding side to side, you can always screw down a couple blocks of aluminum into the original screw holes to prevent the bar from slipping (to save money), but only if it's actually slipping side to side on you, if it's not slipping I wouldn't worry about it, (on my first early 2010 TI with those cleats removed the AKA brace bar would slide side to side 1 inch each way when tacking (what we used to call the " BIG CLUNK", because everytime you tacked there was a huge clunk noise ( I have no idea if AI's had the same problem, I've never been in one, but I suspect they use the exact same design (and components) on both)).
Of course it may no longer be an issue, but may be something to watch and listen for (listen for the 'big clunk', hard to miss (lol)).
Probly all about nothin....
Bob


Hi Bob
I've never had this issue on my AI, and I think if Hobie are/were relying on the cleats to stop the aka moving side to side then there is a serious design fault.
Cheers
Colin
Author:  Scrumpy [ Fri May 15, 2015 9:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AI control line mods
I'm just heading out to get the new control/cleat block bolted into position.

As much as I'm inexperienced with Island boats, being an engineer I'm not sold on the cleats being required to stop the cross bar potentially sliding around on it's mounts. That said movement would be limited due to the knuckles anyway should they become loose. However, I was intending to keep the cleats up front as they may be using for other uses that I also envisage in the future (fishing stuff)

Here's a couple more photos showing the block position and the Harken block up front.

ImageP1060650 by Rob Appleby-Goudberg, on Flickr

ImageP1060653 by Rob Appleby-Goudberg, on Flickr
Author:  fusioneng [ Fri May 15, 2015 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AI control line mods
Scrumpy I'm not saying it's a problem, I'm just saying it was a big problem on the first two TI's that I owned (the clunk) and the AKA brace flopping back and forth, on my third TI ( a 2012) it is much less notable. The design has not changed at all as far as I can see. I only said to watch for the potential issue creeping it's ugly head again. Once I lose trust in stuff, that trust never comes back.
Thats all.
Bob
Author:  Scrumpy [ Fri May 15, 2015 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AI control line mods
fusioneng wrote:
Once I lose trust in stuff, that trust never comes back.
Thats all.
Bob


I hear you!... I'd be the same
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