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Downwind Sailing-how do you keep the sail from folding
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=54643		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Ridgerunner [ Tue May 05, 2015 5:18 am ]
Post subject:  Downwind Sailing-how do you keep the sail from folding
A newbie question: without a boom, what are the options (other than the slot in the paddle) for keeping the sail out going downwind. All my experience is with boomed sails. Thanks.
Author:  TI_Tom [ Tue May 05, 2015 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Downwind Sailing-how do you keep the sail from folding
You can rig a barber hauler from the amas.
Author:  KayakingBob [ Tue May 05, 2015 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Downwind Sailing-how do you keep the sail from folding
It is faster in most conditions for our islands to sail 45 degrees downwind (broad reach) and then jibe to sail the other side 45 degrees, than to sail strait downwind (running).

On AI's a "poor man's" barber hauler works well in near running conditions. The TI's sail is just too long for this same setup.
Author:  mmiller [ Tue May 05, 2015 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Downwind Sailing-how do you keep the sail from folding
Here is a thread discussing some options:

http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=53324&p=246101&hilit=barber#p246101
Author:  Tom Kirkman [ Tue May 05, 2015 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Downwind Sailing-how do you keep the sail from folding
Few modern multi-hulls are designed to sail dead down wind (DDW). Nearly all arrive faster by sailing towards the wind far enough to keep speed up. Velocity Made Good (VMG). You may want to look that up and keep it in mind.
Author:  tonystott [ Tue May 05, 2015 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Downwind Sailing-how do you keep the sail from folding
It is no big deal, but I am curious as to your dismissing the notch in the paddle idea. If you file a 1/4 inch square notch in one end of your paddle, you can get to see its effectiveness in various angles to the wind, and this will help you decide what you might want (if anything) instead. As others have said, tacking (well ok, technically gybing) downwind will get you to your destination quicker than running dead downwind (and is a far more enjoyable experience). Accordingly, you might find that the only time you might actually sail directly downwind is inside a narrow channel, where the notched paddle will suffice.

The cost is pretty attractive as well :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Author:  Chekika [ Wed May 06, 2015 3:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Downwind Sailing-how do you keep the sail from folding
KayakingBob wrote:
It is faster in most conditions for our islands to sail 45 degrees downwind (broad reach) and then jibe to sail the other side 45 degrees, than to sail strait downwind (running).

On AI's a "poor man's" barber hauler works well in near running conditions. The TI's sail is just too long for this same setup.

Ridgerunner--you have not said which boat you are talking about, AI or TI?

On the AI, I like KB's outhaul method. Occasionally, I use my paddle with a v-notch in the end. You have the paddle, a notch is a minor alteration.

People's suggestion of a doing a broad reach is an excellent idea as is Tom K's VMG suggestion.

Keith
Author:  tonystott [ Wed May 06, 2015 6:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Downwind Sailing-how do you keep the sail from folding
Without being pedantic Keith, I believe a "U" shaped notch about 1/4" across is better than a "V" notch, as it catches on the knot in the line dangling from the sail clew, so the paddle "locks in" to the sail, and no effort is needed to keep them joined.
Author:  Chekika [ Wed May 06, 2015 7:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Downwind Sailing-how do you keep the sail from folding
Tony, your "u-notch" may be better, but I saw in the Everglades Challenge video by Jim Czarnowski (see the "jib & lee helm" thread) that his paddle blade had a "v-notch." What better guidance?

Keith
Author:  tonystott [ Wed May 06, 2015 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Downwind Sailing-how do you keep the sail from folding
Chekika wrote:
Tony, your "u-notch" may be better, but I saw in the Everglades Challenge video by Jim Czarnowski (see the "jib & lee helm" thread) that his paddle blade had a "v-notch." What better guidance?

Keith

Of course I would defer to him Keith, the last thing I want is to be thought of as a "know-it-all" :lol: :lol:
Author:  RandomJoe [ Wed May 06, 2015 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Downwind Sailing-how do you keep the sail from folding
Mine is more of a "Y" notch. A bit wider at first to make it easier to get around the string - blowing wildly in the breeze as it often is - necking down narrow enough to "trap" the knot at the bottom. With just a V it was too easy for the knot to slip out.
Author:  Chekika [ Wed May 06, 2015 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Downwind Sailing-how do you keep the sail from folding
Great--now we have a "notch" competition going. As I say, I don't use my paddle often because I'm all set up to use KB's outhaul. I even have 2 Harken cam cleats installed just in front my Vantage seat--one on each side--to hold the outhaul line.

Keith
Author:  NOHUHU [ Wed May 06, 2015 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Downwind Sailing-how do you keep the sail from folding
Tony, I am with "U".

Image

The U slot grabs the sheet knot just right and the hole on the other end can be clipped to a biner.

If you use a canoe paddle with a T handle, it likely won't reach far enough on an AI. The clew on the big TI sail is too far away, I think, to use a paddle effectively. I use bungees to outhaul the TI sail, when needed. A spinnaker would be waaay better.

I'll get around to a poor man's barber hauler, someday.
Author:  Ridgerunner [ Wed May 06, 2015 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Downwind Sailing-how do you keep the sail from folding
Thanks guys. I always broad reach when I can in my Core Sound and Shellback. Keith, I got a new AI and am planning on taking it to the Chesapeake next week (wondering if finishing 7 Everglades Challenges and several Ultramarathons will make up for my being a multi hull neophyte. We'll see.
Author:  Chekika [ Wed May 06, 2015 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Downwind Sailing-how do you keep the sail from folding
Ridgerunner--thought that name sounded familiar. You know I capsized my 2015 AI (AI 2) on my 4th sail and 1st camping trip. I think it was due to a bad shear pin. I've replaced both of mine now. As you probably know the AI 2 is fast. People are installing "safety lines" to avoid capsizing, as I did, if a pin breaks. See http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=54588 Capsizing and recovery will, however, qualify you on the skill level for the Chesapeake on your new boat.

Good luck!

Keith
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