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AI: Storage on Beach Wheels?
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=55682		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  PeteCress [ Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  AI: Storage on Beach Wheels?
Got the part about oil-canning if an AI hull is stored right-side-up on the sand/ground - and that it needs to be stored upside-down preferably with weight born on the side rails.

But how about storage on beach wheels with the form-fitting cradle like these: http://eleebana.australialisted.com/ad/ ... 8117579/0/ ?

I am thinking of the convenience of just rolling it to the place where it lives and leaving it as-is pending the next trip down the beach.
Author:  tonystott [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AI: Storage on Beach Wheels?
That would have to be just about the worst possible storage method, unfortunately. Not only would the hull tend to banana (droop at both ends), but the tyres would be likely to develop flat spots.

You should consider two of those cradles, plus support at each end, and if your arrangeent uses that beach trolley, it should be raised so that the tyres are not bearing any weight.
Author:  PeteCress [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AI: Storage on Beach Wheels?
tonystott wrote:
That would have to be just about the worst possible storage method, unfortunately. Not only would the hull tend to banana (droop at both ends), but the tyres would be likely to develop flat spots.
Oh well..... -)

What got me going on that was the prospect of flipping the whole assembly (vaka plus amas).

Then, after posting, I read what sounded like a reference to using the mast as a lever to get the whole thing on it's side... then removing the mast and laying vaka + amas down upside-down.

Seems like a lot of force on the ama that takes the load.... or is it?

Has anybody done the mast-flip thing successfully long-term?
Author:  tonystott [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AI: Storage on Beach Wheels?
Pete, I would think that turning it upside down just for storage is too much effort.Whgy not build a simple frame supporting a couple of 1 1/2 inch diameter pvc pipe (about 8 feet long or so) set about 11 1/2 inches apart (my guess, but you can measure the distance between the grooves in the hull, or someone will pipe up if my distances are wrong),

You can then slide the intanct Island from trolley to storage frame, and it will be supported in a harmless way, amas and all.

Hope this helps.
Author:  Buckaroo [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AI: Storage on Beach Wheels?
Something like this but without the casters below for your stationary storage. The boat will slide onto it like butter. you could easily add some crosspieces to support the amas. It's maybe $20 in materials.

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=54979

And an HD scupper cart that takes beach wheels. If you make your stationary storage high enough to get the scupper cart in after pulling the boat halfway out ( set the stern on a cooler or have someone hold it up ) it makes your job easy, then you just take the cart along with you rather than wondering what will happen to it if left on the beach or having to take it back to your storage area.

Chris
Author:  motoenthusiast [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AI: Storage on Beach Wheels?
For the last three years I've stored my TI on the cart with no problems. I have milk crates at each end to take some of the load off the cart and have had no warping at all. I'm walking distance from where I do 95% of my sailing and take it out 3 or 4 times a week year round. Works great for me. I believe it was Mr Miller who suggested just putting support at each end and it would be fine. He was right, as usual.
Author:  wild321 [ Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AI: Storage on Beach Wheels?
motoenthusiast wrote:
For the last three years I've stored my TI on the cart with no problems. I have milk crates at each end to take some of the load off the cart and have had no warping at all. I'm walking distance from where I do 95% of my sailing and take it out 3 or 4 times a week year round. Works great for me. I believe it was Mr Miller who suggested just putting support at each end and it would be fine. He was right, as usual.


same here stored on the road/launch trailer since 2012 with no known issues.. :?
Author:  PeteCress [ Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AI: Storage on Beach Wheels?
wild321 wrote:
motoenthusiast wrote:
For the last three years I've stored my TI on the cart with no problems. I have milk crates at each end to take some of the load off the cart and have had no warping at all. I'm walking distance from where I do 95% of my sailing and take it out 3 or 4 times a week year round. Works great for me. I believe it was Mr Miller who suggested just putting support at each end and it would be fine. He was right, as usual.


same here stored on the road/launch trailer since 2012 with no known issues.. :?

Supported at each end? Or just "as-is"?
Author:  tonystott [ Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AI: Storage on Beach Wheels?
Pete, clearly a kayak which is 18'6" long would always be best supported in multiple positions...

How you achieve this is varied, as shown above. My point was that those beach wheels don't like sitting for long periods carrying a load, as they can develop flat spots. So if you want to use that beach trolley, apart from supporting the hull out near each end, ideally you should rasise the trolley to take a lot of the weight off the wheels. That is why I instead suggested the parallel pvc alternastive.

I keep my own TI on its trailer, but rather than just relying on the two cradles, I have rollers front and back, about half way between ends of the hull and the nearest cradle.

One thing for sure though, storing the TI out in the open, even covered by a tarp, is likely to expose the hull to a lot of heat, and I would be very hesitant to just rely on the two Hobie cradles in that situation.

Hopefully the range of views expressed above will help you make a good decision.
Author:  JKicker [ Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AI: Storage on Beach Wheels?
motoenthusiast wrote:
For the last three years I've stored my TI on the cart with no problems. I have milk crates at each end to take some of the load off the cart and have had no warping at all. I'm walking distance from where I do 95% of my sailing and take it out 3 or 4 times a week year round. Works great for me. I believe it was Mr Miller who suggested just putting support at each end and it would be fine. He was right, as usual.


Here's a video of a guy in Japan using the milk crate cart method (right at the beginning you can see it being taken out). This is what I'm planning on doing once I get my TI unless I hear of anyone having problems! I'll probably pad the tops of the milk crates with something luxurious like pool noodles :D

Author:  PeteCress [ Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AI: Storage on Beach Wheels?
tonystott wrote:
... a simple frame supporting a couple of 1 1/2 inch diameter pvc pipe (about 8 feet long or so) set about 11 1/2 inches apart (my guess, but you can measure the distance between the grooves in the hull, or someone will pipe up if my distances are wrong),
What I am hearing is that the AI can be stored right-side-up as long as it is resting on two bunks that are spaced/sized/aligned so that they follow the grooves in the bottom of the hull.

Have I got it right?
Author:  Media1der [ Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AI: Storage on Beach Wheels?
[/quote]What I am hearing is that the AI can be stored right-side-up as long as it is resting on two bunks that are spaced/sized/aligned so that they follow the grooves in the bottom of the hull.

Have I got it right?[/quote]

I would certainly hope so, as that's how the custom trailer we bought was set up. There was no way the two of us were going to be able to regularly tip that boat upside down for storage! The dealer mounted the TI cradle set on the trailer frame (cradle link below) ... we back the trailer down the launch ramp, pull the TI with folded amas up onto the cradles with the bow supported by the spare tire, prepare for storage, lay the covered mast over the boat, cover everything with the boat cover, then push the trailer into its storage slot. Keep in mind we are in Michigan, USA -- so it gets hot here in the summer, but not typically melt-your-boat hot.

We did have the boat stored in our garage on the beach wheels for a short time when we first bought it (used) and I read a number of warnings NOT to do that -- that the boat would warp in heat and could crack. That's what tipped us over the edge to buy the custom trailer and cover -- both pricey, but we consider it insurance to protect the investment we already made. The last hurdle was figuring out how to get water out of the mast cup without tipping the boat - and a bilge pump solved that. Thankfully, I can see no other good reason to try and turn that boat over!

Hobie Islands cradle sets: https://www.austinkayak.com/products/1746/Hobie-Cradle-Set.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping:%20ACK%20PLA&scid=scplp286528&gclid=Cj0KEQjwu-CuBRCQ2byQtMep7e0BEiQABQKlkeoUs5fE23xPt_rTalNzyLhdFEKAlas6O1DCqo7P4ewaAhvT8P8HAQ

If you're on a fixed income, I can't see any good reason you couldn't rig similar storage with an inexpensive wood frame and/or milk crates and pool noodles as someone on the forum suggested. Just space the load and make sure there is no unnecessary pressure on the amas/akas -- although they are not that hard to disassemble and reassemble, really, and I would personally remove them for storage if we didn't have the setup with built-in support.

~ cfw
Author:  Buckaroo [ Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AI: Storage on Beach Wheels?
Pete
That's how I'm doing it on my trailer and it works great. You can search my posts and see the contraption I came up with in detail. On my TI the scupper holes are 11" O.C. and this agrees with the spacing of the pipes on my Hobie HD cart. I'm using more than 8' of pipe to support the boat. At the bow the pipes come together and act more as a skid, then another pair of pipes take over at the beginning of the scupper grooves at about 9 1/2" O.C. . I did it this way just so the hardware was the same throughout. You could support the bow in some other way.
My boat is supported almost along it's entire length except where the hull sweeps upward at the stern.
If you use more than one piece of pipe on each side I suggest cutting the couplings off and ease the ends of the pipes with sandpaper so they can't dig into the hull. If you leave the couplings the boat will sit on them rather than the pipe in that area.
The boat slides so easily on the pvc I can pull it off the trailer with two fingers on the stern T handle.

Chris
Author:  wild321 [ Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AI: Storage on Beach Wheels?
PeteCress wrote:
wild321 wrote:
motoenthusiast wrote:
For the last three years I've stored my TI on the cart with no problems. I have milk crates at each end to take some of the load off the cart and have had no warping at all. I'm walking distance from where I do 95% of my sailing and take it out 3 or 4 times a week year round. Works great for me. I believe it was Mr Miller who suggested just putting support at each end and it would be fine. He was right, as usual.


same here stored on the road/launch trailer since 2012 with no known issues.. :?

Supported at each end? Or just "as-is"?

just as is ..the nose is pointing down resting on the trailer the rear in the air no suport
Author:  PeteCress [ Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AI: Storage on Beach Wheels?
tonystott wrote:
I would think that turning it upside down just for storage is too much effort.

I am finding it pretty easy as long as the amas have been removed. I stick a piece of broken windsurfer mast into one of the iako receptacle tubes, lift, and it flips right over - total control, gentle landing.

My Beta version is 4 cinder blocks with 2x6's laying across them and attached to the blocks with blue masonry screws to keep them from squirming around and to ensure that the iako holders encounter only the wood and not the cinder blocks.

The pix show it set up in my yard. Production will be with the cinder blocks sitting on New Jersey quartz beach sand.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 2238079874
https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 6474559474
https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 0600460434
https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 4494284514

I'm thinking maybe tighten up the blocks that keep it from sliding off so there is zero or very little wiggle room for the wind to blow it back-and-forth.

The security chains will go through the Mirage Drive opening and down the sides of the hull, anchored in the center (under the Mirage Drive hole, and on each side - so the hull cannot be rolled up from either side.

I'm making a cover from 10oz cotton duck (painter's drop cloth) and will sew some old carpeting around the Mirage Drive hole and down the sides so the chains don't beat up the hull too much.

Only structural question in my mind is "What happens when somebody uses it as a bench?".... Might be an argument for a couple more cinder blocks and another 2x6 in the center.

Kids *will* jump up on it and walk back-and-forth.... they already do that with the windsurfers stored nearby - while they are in the racks, no less.... the cover, by making such a slippery surface might mitigate that.... or it might add to the challenge/fun......

But I'm trying to think worst-case basic moronic behavior (as opposed to actively hostile behavior).
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