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The Wing Mainsail Project
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=56254		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  vetgam [ Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  The Wing Mainsail Project
Ok Fusioneng, I knew you would be the first one to open this post.

Here's the deal. You know how to make a funtional furlable wing sail. Is it possible that you could run your design by a sailmaker there in Florida or I could share the design with someone here in Houston and we could have them create one for the main? Would it make sense to use it as the main with a standard jib out front. I seem to see that setup in full size sailboats.

If enough of us were willing to purchase the first prototypes maybe we could afford to get one built. Maybe you could make some money selling them. If you don't want to hassle with it, I'll do the footwork if you'll share the design.

You've dangled the wing in front of us for too long! :lol: Share some of that boat speed with us, please.
Author:  PeteCress [ Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Wing Mainsail Project
vetgam wrote:
Ok Fusioneng....Share some of that boat speed with us, please.
+1
Author:  vetgam [ Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Wing Mainsail Project
I approached a sailmaker earlier this year and they didn't know where to begin making a furlable wing. Anyone seen a company that has created or sells one?

Vetgam
Author:  sharrissmith [ Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Wing Mainsail Project
Hobie is way ahead of the curve. Check it..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4RcXy6Wo4Q
Author:  fusioneng [ Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Wing Mainsail Project
I thought I posted all my designs, how everything worked and all the theories behind everything on the ultimate tandem island thread.
FE
Author:  vetgam [ Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Wing Mainsail Project
Sorry Bob. I wasn't trying to put you on the spot. Just envious of your sail.
Author:  Tom Ray [ Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Wing Mainsail Project
sharrissmith wrote:
Hobie is way ahead of the curve. Check it..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4RcXy6Wo4Q


Hah! That's my video.

The builder of that wing has moved on to making wings for Lasers. Here's his site:

http://solidwingsails.com/

And here's one of the early Laser wings being tested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpdVtKMqdmQ

He has talked to me about building a wing for my AI and I like the idea. The problem with his wings is transporting and storing them.

Last time we were out testing Laser wings, the wing had been heat-deformed by sitting in the truck on a black bed liner and it broke.
Author:  vetgam [ Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Wing Mainsail Project
Here is another wing on a Sunfish.

https://youtu.be/_iRMR0NpQz0

In these videos, I can't say that the wing is making that big of a difference in boat speed to want to give up all the advantages of the Hobie furlable mainsail. I think fusioneng's success is because he is motorsailing and the wing may perform better at speed.

Since I want to stay motorless, I think I need to focus on traditional sails. I may play with various jib sizes and see what happens.
Author:  fusioneng [ Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Wing Mainsail Project
Yea that's true anymore I mostly powersail. When the wind picks up around here it gets very rough, I have a broken back and just can't stand the rocking and moving around in chop so I only go out typically when the wind is 2-6 mph and the sea is very calm and flat. Around here it is also very hot and sunny all the time (I don't go out if it's cloudy). Around here that ends up being 80% of the time.
I pretty much converted my boat to a human/hybrid powered boat, it's not really a sail boat anymore. The problem I have is I try to cover 10-15 miles every weekend via pedaling my pedalboat (my TI is my exercise program mostly because I spent too many years in martial arts and have a bad back, hip, and most of my joints are shot so I can't do much else besides pedal exercisewise. I don't know about anyone else but on a stock TI in 3-5 mph wind progress is very slow (maybe 3mph headway) and sometimes negative against our 5mph current thru the passes. So I made a few minor mods, used to take 8 hrs or more to get my 15 miles in, anymore I'm typically out a couple hrs at the most to get my distance in. I'm pretty sure my boat is not sailing in the true sense of the word, the sails act as amplifiers I guess. With no sails up at all, the engines idling and me pedaling the boat travels 7-8 mph in calm. With the wing and main up I cruise 8-10 mph (my average cruise speed). Basically the boat creates it's own wind so I don't really care what the actual wind speed and direction is (I am always traveling faster than the wind anyway). That's what I got, and I've been running this same setup for a couple yrs now and do'nt have any plans to do anymore. I'm pretty much set and happy.
I was out Sunday got ten miles in and used .66 of a quart of gas (about $.40 cents in fuel), I can afford that.
FE
Author:  tomthouse [ Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Wing Mainsail Project
Here's an interesting design that doesn't trail the wing sail aft of the mast, but rather centers the mast inside the middle of the wing sail.

The net result is improved boat balance and a much tamer tack and jibe. It also allows the wing sail to stow much easier, when hauled down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1cEFP_H4Rk
Author:  fusioneng [ Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Wing Mainsail Project
TomT:
That's one of the designs I looked at, and designed one of my concepts around (but never built). Though not rotofurling like my other designs, I liked it because it can collapsed vertically from a halyard.

The first pass of the design had the mast at the widest point of the Eppler 420 wing but I ran into great difficulty working out the mechanical aspects of changing the wing from it's symmetric (neutral) shape to an Asymmetric shape on either side when engaged. I simply couldn't figure out how to do it without all kinds of levers and cable inside.
I ended up moving the mast back to the front leading edge and adding air inlets at the leading edge (like a parasail) to fill the inside with pressure.
The design shown has no mechanical mechanisms of any kind it simply uses natural forces (pressure on one side vacuum on the other to change the sail form to it's asymmetric shape when engaged. When in neutral the shape (not engaged) the wing has no drag, but does not provide any propulsion either.

The design shown is just the 1st spar (at the top of the mast), the spars would be spaced somewhere between 15 and 24 inches apart (7-10 spars). To derive the remaining spars everything is computed by percentages. For example the widest point is 22% if the overall length behind the front of the sail (ie 6.38"/29" =.22 (22%). Obviously the actual curvature is created by the battens, the cross rods at each intersection maintain the relative shape between the outside and inside surfaces as the center of the sail flexes from the natural pressure/vacuum created as you increase the angle of attack on the wing (keep in mind the inside of the sail is filled with pressurized air from the air inlets at the mast.
The first and second spars are the critical spars, and will have an angled brace from the mast on the second spar going up at an angle to the back of the first spar (chances are the halyard will attach to that brace). The actual battens could be F18 type square type sail battens or similar in sleeves.

An external boom would likely be required (like windsurfers use) somewhere near mid sail with a tension lines leading to the top rear (all would collapse when the sail comes down).

Image

I have no plans to do any more, I'm pretty happy with what I currently have, been running for quite a while now with no problems and the boat performs to my expectations.
Hope this helps
FE
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