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Real-World Capsize/Recovery Vids?
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=58999		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  PeteCress [ Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Real-World Capsize/Recovery Vids?
The only vid I have been able to find of a capsize/recovery under "Real-World" conditions has been this one: http://trucong.com/fr/1/froJfr_1hoExyhW ... e+arc+2015

After my own little "Interesting" experience, I have put together a set of righting lines that double as aka-collapse mitigators and the one time I have tested them they seemed to work OK.... but that was under calm conditions.

I would like to see what Those Who Know are doing.

Can anybody point to some more "Real-World" videos of Adventure/Tandem Island capsize/recoveries....... and/or righting line setups?
Author:  Chekika [ Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-World Capsize/Recovery Vids?
Pete, I don't know of any "real world videos" of AI/TI capsizes and righting. Anyone who has sailed a cat, such as the Hobie 14 or 16, is very familiar with the steps in righting this type of boat--there may be videos for righting these boats. In my case, I capsized my 2015 AI loaded for a 4-day camping trip in winds of 17-18 mph, gusting to 21 mph. I, like you, broke an aka brace pin in open water with insta-capsize. You can read about it here: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=54465

I have experience, many years ago, on a Hobie 16 and righted it many times. I thought the righting of my AI 2 was "routine," and it was definitely "real world."

Keith
Author:  PeteCress [ Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-World Capsize/Recovery Vids?
Chekika wrote:
Pete, I don't know of any "real world videos" of AI/TI capsizes and righting. Anyone who has sailed a cat, such as the Hobie 14 or 16, is very familiar with the steps in righting this type of boat--there may be videos for righting these boats. In my case, I capsized my 2015 AI loaded for a 4-day camping trip in winds of 17-18 mph, gusting to 21 mph. I, like you, broke an aka brace pin in open water with insta-capsize. You can read about it here: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=54465

I have experience, many years ago, on a Hobie 16 and righted it many times. I thought the righting of my AI 2 was "routine," and it was definitely "real world."
That's where I am coming from: two 16's, 3 14's, and an outrigger canoe - both in Hawaii and East Coast USA.

I'm basically taking the Hobie14 approach (one man's body weight....no bag full of water slung over my shoulder as with the 16's) with pre-capsize aka-folding mitigation added and intentional folding of one set of akas during the recovery process (in the event that one isn't already folded).

Seems like no problem in bay water (i.e. the mast stuck in the mud and the boat on it's side instead of turtled). .... not as easy as an outrigger canoe, but easier than a 14 or 16.

I did try one test with mast removed to allow the hulls to turtle; and it worked.

But I have no venue to test my system against a real-life full turtle situation and I was fishing for some vids/experience that might point out some flaw in my reasoning.

One diff from the 14/16 scenarios is that. with the 14's and 16's turtled, you can easily climb/swim up on to the tramp, stand up, get positioned, and then step back on to the inverted hulls and lean back against the righting line.

I don't expect to be able to climb up on to the inverted AI hull, stand up, and do that..... but did manage to get it to rotate sans mast from full turtle by bracing my feet against the side of the hull, bending forward at the waist, and pulling on the righting line until the hull started to rotate. ..... Of course once there was sufficient rotation to give the righting line some leverage, my weight easily pulled it right up and over.

Next time I get motivated to do some tests, I plan to see if I can heave my butt up on to the turtled hull and then try leaning back against the righting line from a sitting position - or maybe, using the righting line as a brace, transition into a squat and then stand up.

Another thing I want to try is a righting pole: something you can lay across the inverted hull, anchor against the extended ama or one of the akas, and then hang your body weight on from the water to get the boat partially rotated to the point where you have enough leverage via the righting line. ..... And the length of such a pole could be reduced by folding the other ama too..........

OR, now that I am actually thinking this through, maybe a righting pole that sticks into one of the scupper holes that take the beach wheels..... now you have maybe 3' or more of lever arm sticking straight up an maybe you can grab that from the water far enough up to get the leverage to initiate hull rotation.

I suspect that one joker in the deck may be twisting damage to the knuckles of the folded akas - either by inadvertantly bracing against the accidentally-folded ama or by the leverage of said righting pole on the intentionally-folded ama...... which leads me to think even more favorably about the scupper-pole approach.
Author:  Chekika [ Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-World Capsize/Recovery Vids?
Pete, when I righted my AI 2, I simply stood on the centerboard, and it was sufficient leverage to right the boat. These boats all have dagger boards or center boards. So, no need to look for additional places to stand for leverage. I do have righting lines which provide additional leverage to right the boat. Those lines can also be used to stand on and hoist yourself back into your boat. My mods are discussed at length here: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&start=750 Of course, if you have tramps and/or hakas and keep-out lines (see my mods), your boat will likely never capsize, ever.

Keith
Author:  fusioneng [ Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-World Capsize/Recovery Vids?
I have never capsized, came close plenty of times, and have pitch poled a bunch of times, where the bow dove down about 4 ft, but never flipped ( the ti is probably too long flip forward completely). One of the reasons I widened my boat two ft was to prevent any possibility of capsize. Though I have never practiced, I think my righting plan would be to fold one ama in and put the bungy on. Then stand on that AMA, grab the center board, then just lean back.
Actually I have an extra potential issue with my rig, thats the huge wing sail, if that sucker filled with water, it would probably weigh a hundred lbs which would complicate matters in 6ft seas. I would likely just release the halyard and let it float in the water held by the base, then once the boat is righted, just hoist it back up. All the air inlets are on slits on the leading edge, so I think I could drain it easily (hopefully).
Plus with my ouboards, they would not likely start after a capsize, currently my outboards are my main get out of trouble plan, If I get caught out I can always furl my sails, and get out of dodge quickly and get back to safety, even if one outboard is disabled. The way my boat is rigged if I break a rudder, I can always steer with one or both outboards.
I guess the thing to do is try and not capsize, because if I do in 6ft seas, I would be in big trouble.
Actually a good subject, makes you think "what would I do in that situation"
FE
Author:  PeteCress [ Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-World Capsize/Recovery Vids?
Chekika wrote:
Pete, when I righted my AI 2, I simply stood on the centerboard, and it was sufficient leverage to right the boat. These boats all have dagger boards or center boards. So, no need to look for additional places to stand for leverage. I do have righting lines which provide additional leverage to right the boat. Those lines can also be used to stand on and hoist yourself back into your boat. My mods are discussed at length here: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&start=750 Of course, if you have tramps and/or hakas and keep-out lines (see my mods), your boat will likely never capsize, ever.
Being belt-and-suspenders prone, I implemented your keep-out lines and integrated them with righting lines.

Here are some pix:
Lines in normal use: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... JaRW5TYzBR

One snap connector released to show the keep-out line part more clearly: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... JaRW5TYzBR

Length of Harbor Freight Flat Bungee in normal operation: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... JaRW5TYzBR

Shear bolt failure simulation - this is as far back as the ama can go with the keep-out line connected. When sailing, it never gets that far back... maybe 25% as far: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... JaRW5TYzBR

Length of Harbor Freight Flat Bungee at maximum extension (i.e. simulating shear bolt failure): https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... JaRW5TYzBR

Finally, the line with both snap connectors relesed - deployed for capsize recovery: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... JaRW5TYzBR


For transport/storage, the snap connectors are detached from the bow bungees and attached to female connectors secured to the front X-Bar. ... This keeps the lines organized and ready to re-connect easily:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... JaRW5TYzBR
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... JaRW5TYzBR
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... JaRW5TYzBR

This may look like wretched excess.... but rigging/de-rigging is literally a snap and, so far, the lines have stayed in place when sailing in heavy air.


Next on my list is the scupper righting pole idea for starting the recovery from full turtle.
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