I guess I should add I had exactly six pool noodles in my AI at the time as well. (I guess we all read the same thread saying how many were needed!
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| Fully-Swamped AI-2: How Much Water http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=59096 |
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| Author: | PeteCress [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Fully-Swamped AI-2: How Much Water |
Just got one of these puppies: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AU ... UTF8&psc=1 Ergonomics seem pretty good and I was able to empty a five-gallon bucket in 37 seconds with 50 strokes. Thanks FusionEng. Let's call it 5 gallons per minute.... FWIW I can keep ahead of my garden hose fairly easily by pumping as the hose tries to fill the bucket. But I have no clue how many gallons of water would be in a fully-swamped AI-2. I'm thinking about the day I forget and leave the drain plug open and it takes awhile for that fact to dawn on me. Interior volume must be a "Known".... as must be the volume of the safety flotation they put in there. Granted it would probably be sailable swamped - and sailing to shore and just letting it drain might be the sensible thing to do. But the OCD in me wants to know if anybody can put some numbers on those two volumes. |
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| Author: | Chekika [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fully-Swamped AI-2: How Much Water |
I have no idea about how many gallons of water an AI 2 can hold, but I have swamped both an AI and an AI 2. Let me assure you, it is serious exercise hand-pumping these boats out. If you are lucky, there will be other people around to help. Keith |
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| Author: | recycle [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fully-Swamped AI-2: How Much Water |
I don't know the number of gallons, but I can tell you trying to empty a full hull with one of those pumps takes a quite a while... I was sailing my AI a couple of years ago in Lake Champlain, and a small crack near the drive ended up completely flooding my hull (literally only the amas kept me afloat). I found a quiet bay and began pumping out... I had a pump that looks just like your's. I am pretty strong so I could do it hard and fast but I would say I only got maybe half the hull emptied in around maybe 15 minutes... and it was exhausting. I actually bought this small electric pump for future emergencies... it still takes a while with that, but you can be taking a break as it does! |
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| Author: | Chekika [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fully-Swamped AI-2: How Much Water |
I have no idea about how many gallons of water an AI 2 can hold, but I have swamped both an AI and an AI 2. Let me assure you, it is serious exercise hand-pumping these boats out. If you are lucky, there will be other people around to help. Keith |
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| Author: | tonystott [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fully-Swamped AI-2: How Much Water |
I have stuffed six pool noodles into my TI to serve two purposes: Support >my< weight in the event of flooding (Hobie supplies enough to keep the hull from sinking) Reduce the amount of water I would have to pump out. I am very much comforted knowing that my TI's amas can support an additional 300 kgs between them... |
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| Author: | tonystott [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fully-Swamped AI-2: How Much Water |
I have stuffed six pool noodles into my TI to serve two purposes: Support >my< weight in the event of flooding (Hobie supplies enough to keep the hull from sinking) Reduce the amount of water I would have to pump out. I am very much comforted knowing that my TI's amas can support an additional 300 kgs between them... As the noodles are placed along each side under the rails, they do not seem to take up much room. If I need more storage for weekends away etc, I will just pile up large drybags on the haka, after stuffing smaller ones inside the hull. |
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| Author: | recycle [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fully-Swamped AI-2: How Much Water |
I guess I should add I had exactly six pool noodles in my AI at the time as well. (I guess we all read the same thread saying how many were needed! )
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| Author: | PeteCress [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fully-Swamped AI-2: How Much Water |
tonystott wrote: I have stuffed six pool noodles into my TI to serve two purposes: I just put all the pool noodles that I had on hand in the stern cargo area.Support >my< weight in the event of flooding (Hobie supplies enough to keep the hull from sinking) Reduce the amount of water I would have to pump out. I drink a lot of this stuff: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... JaRW5TYzBR and I am going to start Smurfing the empties in there as they become available..... we'll see how well the caps stay screwed on.... Somebody mentioned pool noodles interfering with his steering lines. I don't see it myself.... the noodles seem too soft and I would think the lines would just shred them in case of conflict.... but has anybody experienced this? I think that totally swamping my AI and then pumping it out is on the menu for the next time there is little or no wind and I get bored. |
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| Author: | fusioneng [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fully-Swamped AI-2: How Much Water |
Last month we totally swamped our TI (one of the hatches was left open), I would guess about 10 gallons of water, it took a good 10 minutes of pumping with the Atwood pump to get the water out. My previous pump was a bulb pump, a few weeks before we had around 4-5 gallons we had to remove with that bulb pump, my hands were fried after 5 minutes of pumping, where I had to take a break, it was over 30 minutes to get that 4-5 gallons out. LOL, that event is what prompted me to buy the Atwood pump, lol whew knew we were going to actually need it a couple weeks later. If I ever get around to designing and building the alternators for my Honda's, my next purchase after that will be an automatic electric bilge pump. FE |
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| Author: | PeteCress [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fully-Swamped AI-2: How Much Water |
fusioneng wrote: If I ever get around to designing and building the alternators for my Honda's, my next purchase after that will be an automatic electric bilge pump. If the water-proof enclosure for battery/switch could be done well enough, I would think that one of the 18v Li batteries used for hand tools would be a good power source because of the very small self-discharge rate of Li batteries. e.g. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-ONE-18 ... /204321540Dunno how much water 4AH will move but it will get me and my eBike up more hills in the winter without resorting to mouth breathing than one would expect. Charge it up and put it in the hull in the spring. .... If no use, just pull it out in the fall for a topping up over the winter. Want to go really crazy.... make up a Dragon Tail/Long Tail/Mud Motor using one of the drills the batteries are made for and keep it in the hull against the need to get home without too much pedaling....... maybe carry 2-3 batteries just in case.... |
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| Author: | NOHUHU [ Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fully-Swamped AI-2: How Much Water |
Pete- probably between 15-20 gallons. I had the displeasure of hauling a fully swamped hull up beach and it weighed at least 100 lb more than a dry, loaded boat. It wanted to tear the bowline/ cleat. And a disk in my back.  Saltwater weighs close to 9lb /gallon. Obviously, it's dangerous to try sailing a flooded AI/TI in swells or trafficked areas. And not much fun. |
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| Author: | PeteCress [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fully-Swamped AI-2: How Much Water |
NOHUHU wrote: Obviously, it's dangerous to try sailing a flooded AI/TI in swells or trafficked areas. Because of stress on the flexing hull?i.e. Is there a reason to not try to sail to shore and just anchor and pump it out on the spot? |
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| Author: | NOHUHU [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fully-Swamped AI-2: How Much Water |
You are going to be slightly under the water, rather than on it, so waves and currents will further swamp you and drag you in directions you don't want to go. Imagine yourself drifting and bobbing, rather than sailing. You can feel the effects of water sloshing back and forth with the swells. As they pass, the bow may point high up or dive deep, raising the rudder out of the water. The sail will catch and spill wind, adding to the effect. You'll lose stability, so It's easier to capsize like this-especially if you are already loaded to the limits. Towing by another Island is going to be questionable. If going downwind you might continue to make "headway" by drifting, sailing and pedaling, but pointing will be diminished. Beating upwind may be impossible. Time spent bailing and searching for leaks is valuable time - not spent sailing. Looking on the bright side, a new AI2 in protected waters should be able to manage a flooded hull much better than one with the smaller Amas, but you really don't want to be caught offshore or in heavy weather in either boat. |
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| Author: | WAVERIDER [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fully-Swamped AI-2: How Much Water |
PeteCress wrote: i.e. Is there a reason to not try to sail to shore and just anchor and pump it out on the spot? Hatches under water, or water splashing in as fast as you can get it out with hatch open, might make insitu pumping impossible without either an electric pump or external pump attached to purpose made pumping outlet bung. You still also might have the problem that caused it to swamp in the first place I can imagine how hard it would be to drag out of water to drain. Might have to wait until tide is out, and hope it is not already. I guess you would open drain before fully out of water, assuming levl in yak is higher than beach level |
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| Author: | tonystott [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fully-Swamped AI-2: How Much Water |
PeteCress wrote: i.e. Is there a reason to not try to sail to shore and just anchor and pump it out on the spot? Pete, I think the biggest issue is that your Island will be almost impossible to manouvre, so you would be a sitting duck in high trafficked areas. Having said that, fortunately the excess buoyancy provided by the amas (eapecially the higher volume AI2 amas, will ensure that sinking is not a possibility (there is a stunning photo posted here showing a TI on its way back to shore, fully flooded, after the drain bung had been left open). In the "normal" real world, you are more likely to have taken on somewhat less than a total fill of the hull (a wave arriving while a hatch is open, etc) so the situation is not likely to be as extreme as that example. I would not consider it worth the hassle to fit an electric bilge pump (and in fact have >never< used my Hobie manual pump apart from trying it out). But it is always good to be thinking of possible emergency scenarios, so that if and when they do arise, you already have run the possibility through your mind |
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