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| [ Alternative hatch ] anyone ? http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=59532 |
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| Author: | Tech [ Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | [ Alternative hatch ] anyone ? |
I am getting sick of the leaking 8" middle hatch. Yes, I cleaned and re-lubed it still leak. I even took screws off and seal with 5200 around. Has anyone try to replace it with another "brand hatch" ? |
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| Author: | Chekika [ Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [ Alternative hatch ] anyone ? |
Tech, you are sure it is leaking? You've tightened the screws? Lubed generously with silicone grease? How do you think it is leaking? Years ago, I used to think the circular hatches were leaking. Now, I think they are pretty good, you must be sure the screws are tight and the ring lubricated with silicone grease. Keith |
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| Author: | tonystott [ Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [ Alternative hatch ] anyone ? |
Follow Keith's recommendation, which should solve the problem..... If you still have a leaking hatch, and you have an Island which is a few years old, you might find that the O-ring is a bit loose. If so, get a razor blade or scalpel, and carefully make a vertical cut through the O-ring. Make a similar (eg parallel to the first) cut about 1/4" away, and carefully join the shortened ends together with superglue. If the o-ring is still floppy in the groove of the hatch lid, repeat the process until it is a firm fit. |
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| Author: | Chekika [ Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [ Alternative hatch ] anyone ? |
Using anything other than SILICONE GREASE may cause the o-ring to loose it's shape. Keith |
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| Author: | Tech [ Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [ Alternative hatch ] anyone ? |
I tested it by placing a dry towel under. After lube(I use pure silicon lube and a lot of it), I sprayed water over the hatch. 5 mins got towel wet. My island is 2011, I notice the o-ring is a bit loose. I thought it's a design purpose. Well my next step is to cut it smaller. Will post an update when I have a chance to test it again. |
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| Author: | tpdavis473 [ Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [ Alternative hatch ] anyone ? |
Leaks can be annoying. I'm surprised that you can still get the lid off if you used 5200 on it. If the superglue trick doesn't work (btw, if you cut on an angle, the superglue will have a better chance of adhering-more surface area), then you could remove the o ring altogether and use "Goop" in the o ring groove. This has the down side that if it doesn't work it will be a nasty job getting rid of the goop. Personally, I'd live with the leak. On my old boat, I used to use the amount of water collected as a "fun meter" to show how much fun I had. If you get a good siphon, it doesn't take hardly any time to drain it back out. |
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| Author: | tonystott [ Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [ Alternative hatch ] anyone ? |
Call me lazy, but I always assume there WILL be water inside the hull, so either only stow items which can get wet without harm, or place items in dry-bags (I have over 20 of them in different sizes, and keep some outside if required, like ground tackle and emergency gear). |
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| Author: | tpdavis473 [ Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [ Alternative hatch ] anyone ? |
Tony, I don't think you are lazy, with your health problems you are literally iron man to get out at all. There is a down side to having perfect seals in any hull. Air pressure differentials can crush your hulls...usually caused by heating (explode) or by sealing the hull when hot then immersing in cold water (implode). |
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| Author: | vetgam [ Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [ Alternative hatch ] anyone ? |
tpdavis473 wrote: There is a down side to having perfect seals in any hull. Air pressure differentials can crush your hulls...usually caused by heating (explode) or by sealing the hull when hot then immersing in cold water (implode). I woke up this morning to find one of my amas partially collapsed in after a cold front hit us last night. All that was needed was to open the drain valve- you could hear the air rush in. By noon the hull looked normal. THAT hull is apparen't seal VERY well. |
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| Author: | Kal-P-Dal [ Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [ Alternative hatch ] anyone ? |
Well I had a lot of trouble to make the big front hatch 100% waterproof and the other two hatches were left as my energi ran out. But I don't accept water in hull so this issue will be adressed. Even if these 8" hatches were 100% watertight they do let water in every time you open them. This is VERY annoying. They also demand a bit too much maintenance in my opinion so if anyone come up with better solution I will be very interested. If anyone of you Hobie fans (like me!) have ever tried a normal sea kayak, you would know that they normally don't leak at all. All equipment is bone dry after a wet ride. As it should be. Why is it so hard to achieve on a Hobie kayak? best regards thomas |
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| Author: | tonystott [ Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [ Alternative hatch ] anyone ? |
Are there any bone-dry rotomolded sea-kayaks? There is an expression in Australia "she'll be right mate" which I guess is the local oxymoron of OCD. I can sleep at night needing dry-bags. |
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| Author: | Chekika [ Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [ Alternative hatch ] anyone ? |
I, for one, am not annoyed at the fact that Hobie's horizontal round hatches let let a small amount water in when opened. Of course, I live and sail in south Florida, not Sweden as does Kal-P-Dal. Coming from a sea kayak background like Kal-P-Dal, it is disappointing to see the Islands leak significantly. I'm also happy to say my 2014 Tandem (and my 2015 AI) is relatively dry. The front hatch does not seem to leak significantly. If it did, I would certainly use Kal-P-Dal's solution for the front hatch. Unfortunately, Hobie still seems to be producing boats which have leaking front hatches. (See Innovations and events on our 2016 Chokoloskee to Flamingo, 7-day trip, http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&start=840) This is both inconvenient for the owner and should be a great embarrassment to Hobie. Keith |
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| Author: | fusioneng [ Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [ Alternative hatch ] anyone ? |
I don't think you will ever have that problem with the TI hull itself (air tight seal). If you ever try to do a pressure test on the hull air blows freely thru all the hatches, the front hatch, the rudder lines, the mast holder (under the rim lip), the steering handles, etc. Our TI is modified just a bit so most of my problems don't apply to everyone else. Our problem is once the boat gets over a certain speed the flow of water reverses thru all the scupper holes and they become drinking fountains, which fills the rear deck area and the rear seating area with water with no means to drain the water. We never store anything inside the hull under the rearmost hatch that we would ever need to access while out on the water (you can't reach the hatch anyway). Same applies with the front hatch, we store flares, first aid kits, extra emergency fuel, our life raft, and a tool kit in the front hatch, none of which ever needs to be accessed while out on the water. On a calm day with winds under 5mph with flat water, I'll typically take in a cup or two of water inside the hull for the day (not an issue). When we go out on 2-3ft washing machine chop If I don't take extra precautions we take in 2-5 gallons of water, and typically need to stop and pump the hull out a couple times during the day. I suspect the biggest issue is the boat itself is very thin and slender and flex's around and twists quite a bit while underway in rough seas. On our TI when cruising 10-12 mph in 2-3ft chop the boat is an extreme handful to control and physically demanding. You can visually see the hull flexing and twisting about a foot in all directions. Water flows into the hull pretty much everywhere (we have tested with towels laid in the hull). Most of the water comes in the cap seal on the front hatch. There is no solution to this problem, a cap seal is the wrong application for this type of seal, If it had been designed as a cork in a bottle type seal, leaking would be a non issue. This is clearly outside the design envelope of the craft design. The boat design is what it is, It's not likely to change, the best we can do is midigate the impact when operating the boat outside of it's intended envelope.. Most of the time we prefer to only go out in low winds (under 5mph), and nice flat water (no waves), which is 80% of the time around here, and ideal for snorkeling and diving (our favorite pastime). In those conditions I do nothing to midigate water entry, on a typical day we take in a cup or two of water in the hull. On some occations we do go out in more extreme conditions, but this is usually planned in advance and I typically take precautions to midigate water entry. Typically I'll tape a garbage over the front hatch, and often just tape masking tape over each of the rear round hatches (we never keep anything in those hatches that we ever need to access while out anyway, so why not just tape them over. Like I said earlier the entire rear half of my boat fills with water anyway up to the gunwales. When we get home we remove the tape and throw it away, then open all the hatches and let the boat dry out with fans in the garage (after fresh water rinsing everything in the yard before putting the boat and trailer in the garage. When we use the boat as a kayak in kayak mode we want all thise nice features. Bottom line, I'm not complaining about the boat design itself (I don't recommend changing anything, I like the design as it is). I just midigate the obvious issues to make it all work for me. Believe it or not, I'm not complaining for once (lol) FE |
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| Author: | tonystott [ Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [ Alternative hatch ] anyone ? |
I just wish Stringy could convince the missus to go into business making "front hatch shower caps". I would be first in the queue for a TI one! I reckon that is the definitive solution for that area. |
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| Author: | Chekika [ Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: [ Alternative hatch ] anyone ? |
fusioneng wrote: Bottom line, I'm not complaining about the boat design itself (I don't recommend changing anything, I like the design as it is). I just mitigate the obvious issues to make it all work for me. Believe it or not, I'm not complaining for once (lol) FE I always thought, if I had designed the TI, I would have made it 2' longer and 4" more narrow. But, I'm not a boat designer and Hobie didn't ask me. FE likes no wind (like 5 mph). Most of us do not have a hybrid, a motor boat/sailing boat, like FE. I likely will NEVER put a motor on my boat, although some of the small motor systems are appealing. Also, like Kal-P-Dal, I camp. So, water in the hull is very undesirable. Of course, everything in the hull, which I don't want to get wet, goes in a dry bag. Many important things go in a large yellow, dry bag bungeed and tethered on the rear storage area. When camping, especially during an adventure race like the Watertribe Everglades Challenge, you do not have a choice about weather conditions, tides, or direction of travel. So, a relatively dry (small amount of water) Island is very important. The other problem with water in the hull is simply weight. Again, in the Everglades Challenge where you are traveling 40-50 miles per day, speed is very important. When you work hard to shave every pound of weight, it is a speed killer to have a leaking boat. I agree with Tony, a front hatch "shower cap," ala Stringy and others is an excellent idea. Keith |
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