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Mirage Tandem Island in single hull kayak mode
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=59684		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  d-dogg [ Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Mirage Tandem Island in single hull kayak mode
New guy considering a Mirage kayak, but am interested in the possible additional benefit of just going with an island. I like the idea of added stability in bigger waters, but might not sail it a whole lot.

Who has a tandem island who has used it in basic kayak configuration? Guessing it may be too long for much maneuverability, and that the narrow hull might not be stable enough for standing up in.

Who's been there/done that? What are your experiences?
Author:  TI_Tom [ Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mirage Tandem Island in single hull kayak mode
I've used my TI in kayak mode. It's definitely not as stable without the amas (I got spoiled), but it's no worse than any other kayak. As far as maneuverability goes there is no difference between having the amas on and straight kayak mode. You just need to remember that for a TI you're turning an almost 19' boat, but I've done a complete u-turn within a marina lane.

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Author:  d-dogg [ Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mirage Tandem Island in single hull kayak mode
Thanks,
And speaking of length, I bet it flies with two paddlers.

Where do you sail in Nebraska? Big Mac?
Author:  TI_Tom [ Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mirage Tandem Island in single hull kayak mode
Yes, it'll definitely fly with two peddlers. My wife and I hit 7 knots in a sprint and we could very comfortably hold 4.

As for sailing in Nebraska I have a few options. If I want a fairly large lake I can go out west to Calamus Reservoir or Lake McConaughey. Locally though, I've got a few small lakes all within 30 minutes of me and about an hour to Branched Oak outside of Lincoln.

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Author:  tonystott [ Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mirage Tandem Island in single hull kayak mode
You obviously have not experienced the true capabilities of a Hobie Island if you think you would not sail it a lot! Without doubt, there are many owners who do enjoy using their Islands in kayak mode, but the ability to sail it in three hull mode is really something special. Similarly, while you can paddle an Isl;and, most users only carry the paddle for emergency use or extra manouverability in tight spaces.If you specifically need the ability to stand up, it can be done in an Island in kayak mode, but why bother when you can add one or both outriggers?
Author:  RandomJoe [ Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mirage Tandem Island in single hull kayak mode
I've used my TI as just a kayak, man what a great glide... :mrgreen: It goes forever with just a little propulsion! But it can be a bit of a chore getting turned around in tight quarters.

It is also great as a single-outrigger kayak. Just attach one of the amas, then have fun. I did this a few times on one trip, makes for a wonderfully stable platform - I didn't have to worry much (almost at all, certainly not compared to a regular kayak) about my balance while photographing the wildlife. I had a haka along as well so lots of storage / work space in easy reach beside me. I was in a lot of skinny water - maybe 8" deep - so had to take the Mirage drive out, that's when I found it was a lot simpler to just use a single-blade (canoe) paddle so I don't bang against the akas.

That shallow-water paddling is where I really like the TI over my Outback - it tracks SO much straighter. First, I can leave the rudder down but uncleated and it just pushes back if it hits the bottom, the Outback twist-n-stow rudder goes sideways and I find I'm in a hard left turn. With no rudder at all the TI with single ama still tracks quite straight whereas my Outback keeps trying to do donuts and requires lots of course correction.

I haven't had much luck with passengers in a tandem kayak... Maybe with an outrigger I'd be okay! One of my just-a-kayak trips I had a relative along on her first kayak trip. It didn't take long before I suggested she just relax and enjoy the ride, PLEASE stop pedaling! :shock: I have no idea what she was doing but every few strokes there was a strong lunge/rock that I occasionally though was going to dump us over! I also tried a tandem pedal-drive kayak at a demo day with my dad - and didn't like his style either. He pedaled just fine but every so often shifted his weight side-to-side - very suddenly. Going along smoothly then a HUGE lean to one side and back to normal! What the heck...?!?

Now, passengers when SAILING is a blast! :mrgreen: I've had four others (including several small kids) out with me a couple of times. We didn't have much wind so it wasn't exciting but they liked it. Taken one other passenger on several occasions in higher winds and really had fun.

I'll admit I don't sail the TI nearly as much as I take a regular kayak out. I can have my Outback on the water and gone in 5-10 minutes, the TI requires (at best) 20 to (more normally) 30 minutes on either side for setup/launch and recovery/teardown. If I intend to be out for a good long time the TI is worth the extra setup/teardown but most of my outings tend to be just a couple hours in the evening and it isn't worth the effort.
Author:  stringy [ Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mirage Tandem Island in single hull kayak mode
Much has been written about the TI in kayak mode. Roadrunners original review written when the TI first came out is an excellent source of info:
viewtopic.php?f=71&t=22808&p=100477

We sold our Oasis when we got our TI back in 2010 and used it often in kayak mode. I tried to highlight the TI's great versatility in these old clips. The TI can handle anything from open waters to the narrowest of creeks.


The negatives with using it as a kayak are mainly its bulk, the built in daggerboard and the fact that you have to remove it from the trailer and strip it down to use. Because of this, over the years we have used it less as a kayak. Last year we ended up getting another Oasis and there is a lot to be said for its simplicity. We are back to kayaking weekly as we can be on the water within half an hour of deciding to go.
But if I could only have one kayak ...it would be the TI for sure!
Author:  WAVERIDER [ Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mirage Tandem Island in single hull kayak mode
When manouvering a mirage kayak, especially a long one, at slow speeds you can achieve tighter turns when you do little short sharp shuffle strokes, ie keeping fins closer to vertical and not flattening. Full strokes require water speed to have much rudder effect.
Author:  d-dogg [ Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mirage Tandem Island in single hull kayak mode
Thanks for some good info thus far.

RandomJoe's reply sounds like how I would probably use the Island.

How did I get here? Scope creep! Although from L.A. (Lower Alabama) originally, and am a gun toting, pickup driving, heck raising Appalachian American (you can't call us hillbillies anymore - it's not PC), I'm also a bit of a tree hugger. Can't have the great outdoors if we pollute it all to hades. So, I got into canoes. The canoes I have are a bit bulky, not so stable, and very open. Not great fishing options without outriggers.

So, I thought, a kayak might be a better option as it's typically lighter, smaller, and shallower draft. Then I see all these new fishing canoes. Pretty cool, I thought. Then, check this out, Hobie has a pedal kayak. How cool is that? Jeeze, they're pricey though. I sort of fell in love with the PA17T, then looked at the islands which are not much more in the grand scheme of things. An island sure would seem to give me a lot more utility than a PA.

The downsides to the island, from what I can tell are the length (registration, which equals personal property taxes in my state) and kayak mode stability. As noted, I could use one ama as an outrigger but that would make me over 5 feet wide. This would obviously keep me out of those tiny channels I can currently make with a canoe or kayak. Still, this would make a fantastic fishing and waterfowl hunting platform (has anyone seen an island with a duck blind?

The reason I wouldn't sail too much is that my options are lakes surrounded with a lot of woods (not much wind) or the lower Potomac, which believe it or not, gets pretty darn rough. Not sure if the island is structurally strong enough to take a lot of punishment in the waves and surf. I do like the idea of a trampoline a lot.

Now that I'm looking at Islands, I am noticing a good number for sale in my area. I have to wonder why that is. Do people graduate to a regular Hobie Cat or other larger sailboat?

Can you fold the mast up and down (leaving it on the boat)?

Stringy's videos seem to suggest I could operate with the amas snug up against the kayak hull? Is this correct? Good news if so.

I also liked the shots of a tent on the island. I just canoed 65 miles through the Atchafalaya river basin swamps this summer, and want to do it again. Setting a tent up on the Island would be sweet!
Author:  RandomJoe [ Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mirage Tandem Island in single hull kayak mode
d-dogg wrote:
As noted, I could use one ama as an outrigger but that would make me over 5 feet wide. This would obviously keep me out of those tiny channels I can currently make with a canoe or kayak.

This would be an issue if the entire length of the channel is only that wide but if you just need to squeeze through a handful of tight spots you can just fold in the ama for a short time. Might be a bit cumbersome if you have to do it frequently but a few times wouldn't be bad.

Note you can't do this with the trampoline installed as it holds the akas fairly securely. Tramps also make it pretty much impossible to paddle from the front seat (except on one side if going single-outrigger) as they tuck right up against the side of the hull. I use hakas (there's a mega-thread here about them - many different styles in use) that are usually wooden slat benches that you strap to the akas. I can strap mine very securely so the ama can't fold in, or I can strap it loosely so it still has give - and as a bonus I can slide the haka away from the hull to paddle or in against the hull to use it as a bench / table.

Quote:
Can you fold the mast up and down (leaving it on the boat)?

The mast sits in a pocket, about a foot (maybe a bit more?). You have to lift it out. It is carbon fiber so doesn't weigh a whole lot, so it's possible to raise / lower while on the water if it isn't too rough. I've done it a couple of times, just furl the sail, disconnect the mainsheet, secure the sail with the keeper, then lift the mast out of the pocket and *carefully* lay it down across the akas. Used a couple bungee balls to secure it while I had it down. Putting it back up was a bit more worrying as there are admonitions to be sure it goes in straight - which can be a bit of a trick in a bobbing boat... :P (Note the furling line is still attached between the mast spool and the hull so hopefully one could retrieve a mast/sail that was accidentally dropped in the water! :cry: )
Author:  TI_Tom [ Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mirage Tandem Island in single hull kayak mode
D-dogg,
The TI should be able to handle the lower Potomac depending on current. The chop might not be comfortable, but the boat will handle it. You might see a few islands for sale right now because people are upgrading to newer models. The new seats weren't available on the islands until 2015, so if your looking at pre-2015's then it's the old seat pads (= wet butt).

The amas do fold in for transport and there is nothing stopping you from folding them in while on the water (trampolines will complicate things) to squeeze into narrower channels.

The mast can also be un-stepped while on the water. It's carbon fiber so it doesn't weigh much at all, just a little cumbersome. Once down it'll lay nicely right across the akas on either side.

I'm sure you could rig a tent up. I would check out the water tribe blog for inspiration on that. There might even be a few threads on this board. If you can rig a tent then a blind should be about the same (just don't shoot your mast) ;)

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Author:  d-dogg [ Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mirage Tandem Island in single hull kayak mode
The new seats and presumably the Mirage 180 drive would likely motivate a person to upgrade, wouldn't they TI_Tom? Didn't the 180 drive appear around 2015 as well?

After digging around on the tent idea, it looks like Stringy has it well figured out. Just to help me out with references, how tall are you Stringy?
Author:  TI_Tom [ Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mirage Tandem Island in single hull kayak mode
The 180 drive wasn't revealed until fall of 2016, so production 2017. IMO the 180 drive is cool, but I can do the same thing with my non-180 drive by simply lifting it out, turning it around and setting it back in the well. Sure, the pedals are backwards, but you're only using reverse for a short period; you're not cruising around the lake in reverse. If you have a Tandem then normally we set it up with one in normal and one in "reverse" for backing away from the boat ramp. Then when a safe distance the forward drive can start forward propulsion while "reverse" drive flips back to normal. You can accomplish the same thing solo it just takes some coordination.

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Author:  CR Yaker [ Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mirage Tandem Island in single hull kayak mode
d-dogg wrote:
The new seats and presumably the Mirage 180 drive would likely motivate a person to upgrade, wouldn't they TI_Tom? Didn't the 180 drive appear around 2015 as well?



Neither of these reasons are one in which I would buy a 2015-2017 TI (Unless you must go mono hull and get only 1 kayak). In fact, the new Vantage seat, which I love in the mono hull Hobies, is not as good as an Atwood replacement for the older Hobies (if your never going to go mono hull on the TI), I find. For the cost savings on a pre-2015 TI, it's a no brainer. The 180 drive is just a marketing tool, I find it non consequential for performance.

I would be thinking two Hobies. One mono hull, solo, for smaller water, near shore. One long range, sailing, motor, etc., two person. Which one you buy first depends on your conditions/settings. I use a Revo 11 for small body water, quick loading, can manually carry for difficult launch sites. TI out front.
Author:  WAVERIDER [ Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mirage Tandem Island in single hull kayak mode
CR Yaker wrote:

I would be thinking two Hobies. One mono hull, solo, for smaller water, near shore. One long range, sailing, motor, etc., two person. Which one you buy first depends on your conditions/settings. I use a Revo 11 for small body water, quick loading, can manually carry for difficult launch sites. TI out front.


Agree better to have two separate yaks to cover diverse extremes if you have the funds, rather than force one to cover the whole lot. A TI is a whole lot of manhandling when all you need at times is a creek basher. It will put you off going at times as a result. The 11 footers whether it be a quest, revo , or sport make it so easy to do those sheltered trips and they have just as much cockpit and accessible storage space as a mono hull island. In fact front hatch is more user friendly.

If you take a ferrari to do the shopping you will soon hate and avoid doing the shopping :D

PS: reverse is a 2016 invention for the 2017 models. The GT drive came out in 2014 for the 2015 models
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